Hackin the roof off!

[type3rod]

I know that when you cut off the roof of a vw you need supprt(roof=alot of support) and that means braces.Wondering were everyone puts theres?????

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

On the pillars, behind the doors, going from one side to the other...
A roll cage helps a lot too...

[vwfye]

there are several ways to do this...
my car has two 2x4 box steel runners from one end to the other about 18 inches apart. then i have a hoop roll bar that is tied into the body at 6 points. car does not flex, and is stiffer than when the roof/glass were there.

[vwfye]

this was the starting point for the midengine notch speedster... can you say ouch?

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Originally posted by vwfye@Aug 5 2003, 08:33 AM
my car has two 2x4 box steel runners from one end to the other about 18 inches apart. then i have a hoop roll bar that is tied into the body at 6 points. car does not flex, and is stiffer than when the roof/glass were there.
yup,
i suppose that's one way to do it... :D

[type3rod]

I want to have this be my daily driver and would like to avoid a roll cage.Also I am doing(hopefully) a carson top and would like to keep the backseat availible. ??????

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

the box steel runners sounds like the way to go then... after all, on a vert beetle the only chassis reinforcements, are the ones in the heater channels...

[vwfye]

this is actually a daily driver for me in the sunny months. and i am only missing the rear seat because of the midengine. you can do the roll cage and still have access to the rear seats. not really an issue either.

[type3rod]

Vwfye,do you have some kind of top for your speedster??? It looks like there are some kind of klip things all aroung the top.

[type3rod]

pic

[vwfye]

they are for the english style tonneau cover. you can unzip just the driver's area and keep the rest of the interior dry.

[Hebster52]

Looki here: :) more about this topic.
Cuttin' n strenghtenin' (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2190)

[type3rod]

Thanks for all the info.Alot of help!

[type3rod]

Actually just thought of this.Should I add all the braces before cutting the roof off,so the shape stays?Or cut the roof then add the braces?

[PapaG]

Add the braces before cutting....

[vwfye]

If you don't re-enforce the pan before you remove the top you will more than likely experience doors that don't quite shut right. also, when you remove the top, the rear pillar area has foam in it... so, be careful to avoid FIRE! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

[type3rod]

Thanks for all your help.Your speedster would look sweet flat black!!

[All_talk]

Originally posted by Mr. Electric Wizard@Aug 5 2003, 11:13 AM
the box steel runners sounds like the way to go then... after all, on a vert beetle the only chassis reinforcements, are the ones in the heater channels...
Not true... there is extra steel all over in the stock vert… extra bracing by the hood hinges, double walling under the dash, triple walling on the sides of the footwells, fillets and double walling around the inside of the door opening, box type cross brace under the back seat, bracing in the top corners of the engine compartment... and the big boxed rails under the heater channels. But the pan is just the same as the sedan. :P

Just for information sake :)

Gary

[Hebster52]

Originally posted by All_talk+Aug 6 2003, 11:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(All_talk @ Aug 6 2003, 11:48 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mr. Electric Wizard@Aug 5 2003, 11:13 AM
the box steel runners sounds like the way to go then...  after all, on a vert beetle the only chassis reinforcements, are the ones in the heater channels...
Not true... there is extra steel all over in the stock vert… extra bracing by the hood hinges, double walling under the dash, triple walling on the sides of the footwells, fillets and double walling around the inside of the door opening, box type cross brace under the back seat, bracing in the top corners of the engine compartment... and the big boxed rails under the heater channels. But the pan is just the same as the sedan. :P

Just for information sake :)

Gary [/b][/quote]
Yes, your absolutely right. That is why I'm making all the different extras on my Hebster, and not just the ones under the heater channels. :)

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

alright you all, i'm sooooooo sorry to be spreading dis-information...
Ok, so just brace the shit out of it... :D :D :D

[Scott H]

I'm confused on whether y'all are talking about a Beetle or a Type 3 ... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

Anyway, here's a page that show the reinforcement areas for converting a bug sedan into a convertible.
Props to Jan Andersson (Bugfuel) for this page:

http://www.geocities.com/janbugger/vert.jpg

edit: well, crap ... I didn't think about that being a geosh*tties page that browns out after you look at it twice. :rolleyes:
I'll attach the pic here if it's ok. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif Hope it helps.

[All_talk]

Originally posted by Mr. Electric Wizard@Aug 7 2003, 05:33 AM
alright you all, i'm sooooooo sorry to be spreading dis-information...
Ok, so just brace the shit out of it... :D :D :D
No Prob Wiz, but now you are on my dis-information list and I’ll have to start checking all your posts. :D :D :D j/k

I’ve thought about taking pics of all the reinforced areas on my vert, but I should have done it before I finished it because the carpet covers a lot of it. Maybe if I pull the carpet for the repaint this winter I’ll do it then.

Gary

[B-snap]

great info guys..now I gotta go find another one (bug)..well actually 2 more... :D
Branden

[Nick]

I found some decently detailed blueprints on how to make your own vert rails (measurments, where to drill, etc), you can download them here (http://www.pre67vw.co.uk/downloads/download.asp?id=3). They're in PDF format BTW.

http://www.pre67vw.co.uk/downloads/images/cabriorail.jpg
Alternate link: http://www.pre67vw.co.uk/downloads/default.asp

[BOOOGHAR]

cant you just do something like a 6 point cage ? I'd rather do that and cover it up with some old bamboo or palm tree leaves , go for some fantasy island looking shit

[Nick]

You could run a 6 point cage but how would that look on, let's say a Heb-style roadster or on Cliff's Hi-Boy. If you want a smooth roadster stype body then you need vert rails...

Oh yeah, bamboo and leaves for you..
http://nick.runtrod.com/vw/bug-jolly1b.jpg

[1slo3]

if you look at the roll hoop in my pink notch speedster, you can see that you would be able to just run it as a cross brace instead of the big hoop and it wouldn't be noticeable above the belt line...

[67type3]

this was great info, since im working on a topless project. i do not want to remove the body off my frame, since i have no freaken idea how. now, what if i just weld in some 1"x1" steel tubes inside the cabin and run a thick brace along side the center frame, will that be enough?

you can see my work and damaged here>>>
http://67type3.netfirms.com/topless.htm

[Hebster52]

I basically made my rails as the pre67 link shows. I used 2 mm metalthickness though.

http://medlem.spray.se/hebster52/images/Strenghtenings.jpg

[Nick]

Originally posted by 67type3@Oct 16 2004, 06:31 AM
i do not want to remove the body off my frame, since i have no freaken idea how.


It should be just a series of bolts that runs arcoss the bottom of your heating channels. Look under your car near the edge, you should see the bolts there.

You probably could get a way just putting support on angles inside your car (like a roll cage of sorts) but just not as clean looking.

[Hapster]

The support boxes on the convertable would keep the bug from having door fitting issues. you can slip them in after unbolting the bolts to the pan. There are several great websites to be found that tell you where the bolts are. Use your search engine and search for heater channel replacement. the boxes run along side of the heater channels. You wont need any overhead bracing but it wouldnt hurt to add some of that convertable bracing shown in earlier posts.

[BOOOGHAR]

I started renforcing the body on mine to hack the roof off of it, 1x2 square tubbing .120 wall thickness , welded the tubbing to the tunnel just below the rear seat to the side of the body, then welding braces off of those to the front of the car welding them to the post the door hinges bolt to and also welding to the floor

[67type3]

Originally posted by Nick+Oct 16 2004, 04:32 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nick @ Oct 16 2004, 04:32 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-67type3@Oct 16 2004, 06:31 AM
i do not want to remove the body off my frame, since i have no freaken idea how. 


It should be just a series of bolts that runs arcoss the bottom of your heating channels. Look under your car near the edge, you should see the bolts there.

You probably could get a way just putting support on angles inside your car (like a roll cage of sorts) but just not as clean looking.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

i plan to use excessive amounts of fiberglass over the welds to have a seemless look. i already started on the dash and the doors. i have heard from a few people that using fiberglass over the welds should make it very stiff.

[SlamIt70]

Alright so I'm done with the Slamit (not slammed like I wanted it but got a little scared after driving in a friends oval and we were taking out road reflectors and then BAM! we jumped a foot into the air and smashed the nose....) so now I'm on the road down to southern Oregon in a few weeks to pick up a bug for 200$ for my Convertable Roadster project. Now for my questions:

Will support be neccesary should I choose to Weld the Doors shut? I'm going Dukes of Hazzard style on those doors all the way. I noticed this question wasn't asked earlier in the post and thought it would be a good question to ask. I plan to Weld the door shut and have a bench seat in the front and in the back so I wish to retain the back seat. Is a cage neccesary under these circumstances, or will it just make it easier to make a less noticable support?

Thanks

Brandon

[FONZY]

you should do just fine with just putting 2 or 3 big bolts throught the door jambs at the front and back of the doors, then weld up the outer skins and what not. just don't depend on ONLY the outer skin for support. deffinitely bolt some stuff together woth heavy grade 8 hardware and fender washers.

but yeah you should have like ZERO body flex with that rig:)

good luck!

[Nick]

Body flex will only effect opening/closing the doors correctly. If you don't plan using doors then you shouldn't worry about body flexing too much unless it's being raced.

[ducktape]

1 i'm doing another topless soon too i cant figure out how to brace it from front to back and not see it. it will be the first one i will be using the doors on

1a can i run it through the heater channels? i didnt get the diagram that was posted. confused?

2 on the doors welded shut thing . IT WORKS AWSOME. and no problems with speed or flex either. the way i did mine befor was to just weld shut the front and back of the door to the body, in the gap at the top where the window used to come out i welded a peice of square tube in from front to back. jamb to jamb. then i filled the holes and did the body work on em. i used a ton of bondo and drove it like i stole it. it would get pretty wild and sideways drifting. no problems with bondo cracks or anything.

[bigguy]

convertable reinforcement rails.or weld square tubing undeneith or put it in the interior and build a false floor and then mount the seats to that.

[a63buggy]

Or just weld the damned things shut and hop in and out. I've got long legs I can just step over the door.

http://www.freewebs.com/a63buggy/Cars/VolksRod004-medium.jpg
OK I'm not done welding yet but you get the idea

[dt113]

[quote=ducktape,Sep 13 2005, 10:09 PM]
1 i'm doing another topless soon too i cant figure out how to brace it from front to back and not see it. it will be the first one i will be using the doors on

You can use 2 inch channel, to strengthen it. Run the channel underneith, along the edge of the body bolts. It has to be cut to fit the conture, of the floorpan along the bolts. Weld that up, and your ready to install it. It welds to the rear torsion, and the front of the tunnel.

I have used this idea on fiberglass dune buggys, for several years. With the extra bracing, the bodies never stress crack. It re-inforces the floorpan, and stops body twist.
Hope that is as clear as mud!

My 2 cents

[67type3]

i just finished my boxed from from the inside. 1" squeare tubing all around. bolted to the pan. added additional cross brassing in the form of a triangle on each pan. will add false floor ontop of brassing and attache seat to brassing. i actually cut off my roof this weekend, too.

[BiggJ22]

Sounds good keep up the good work.

[carcentric]

[quote=ducktape,Sep 13 2005, 10:09 PM]
. . . You can use 2 inch channel, to strengthen it. Run the channel underneith, along the edge of the body bolts. It has to be cut to fit the conture, of the floorpan along the bolts. Weld that up, and your ready to install it. It welds to the rear torsion, and the front of the tunnel. . . .

Your plan sounds like a heavier duty version of how I'll be tying the new front end to my VW floorpan. In my case, though, I'll be relying only on bolts with backing plates for the underframe-to-pan connection (no welding to the rear torsion or to the front of the tunnel). Also, I'll be using 1.5" square tubing (1/8" wall) rather than 2" channel for an extra half inch of ground clearance.

bottom view of reinforcing subframe (http://www.carcentric.com/vwphaeton.htm)

[ducktape]

[quote=ducktape,Sep 13 2005, 10:09 PM]
1 i'm doing another topless soon too i cant figure out how to brace it from front to back and not see it. it will be the first one i will be using the doors on

You can use 2 inch channel, to strengthen it. Run the channel underneith, along the edge of the body bolts. It has to be cut to fit the conture, of the floorpan along the bolts. Weld that up, and your ready to install it. It welds to the rear torsion, and the front of the tunnel.

I have used this idea on fiberglass dune buggys, for several years. With the extra bracing, the bodies never stress crack. It re-inforces the floorpan, and stops body twist.
Hope that is as clear as mud!

My 2 cents
Quoted post

thank you.

[68flatblackbug]

how do u print the cabrio rail off pre67vw site so u can read the messurements?

[Hebster52]

Originally posted by 68flatblackbug@Sep 20 2005, 06:09 AM
how do u print the cabrio rail off pre67vw site so u can read the messurements?
Quoted post


You open the .pdf file below:
Pre67 cabrio rails. (http://www.pre67vw.co.uk/downloads/download.aspx?id=3)

And simply print them out... :blink:

I used these plans too for my Hebster but 2mm thick sheetmetal for my rails instead of 1,5mm shown in the plans.

[68flatblackbug]

i printed them but the print is so tiny i cant read it