Bug Front Axle Extension

[BIG GUS]

I am working on making my bug into a roadster and am looking for front suspension Ideas.
Thanks, Big Gus

[BUGMAN II]

yea i'd like to see some detailed pics of some frontends that have extensions between the frame head and beam like vwfanatic dans and others

[Flipper_1938]

like this?

[crack monkey]

here is rustrodder's and a link to a thread. he extended the framehead
http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?show...topic=2978&st=0 (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2978&st=0)
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1072656641.jpg
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1072656718.jpg

here is dan's that jim fab'd up and a link to one of the threads . has a bolted on extention
http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?show...ront+suspension (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3415&hl=front+suspension)
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1072656270.jpg
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1072656358.jpg

butcher will, nick, tobias have moved the front of the body back
butcherwills car and a thread
http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?show...ront+suspension (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2696&hl=front+suspension)
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1072655953.jpg
tobias
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1055327029.jpg

[exracer29]

aw, crap. that's not the one I wanted- try this

[Ianvwsb73]

Is there any internal bracing in there exracer? Got any more pictures?

[Dr.Freakinstien]

here is some of my photos on page 2 and 5 I think. http://photo.starblvd.net/DrFreakinstien?st=album&pg=1

[Nick]

http://photo.starblvd.net/~DrFreakinstien/2-3-3-1067398634.jpg

Pretty clean setup, how exactly is it extended though, can't see a modded framehead or ??

[Ianvwsb73]

Extremely clean setup. More pictures.
http://photo.starblvd.net/DrFreakinstien/6-2-3.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/DrFreakinstien/6-2-4.jpg

Excellent job. I am still curious, did you just do as rustrodder did and extend it that way? What did you put in the extension to brace everything? Excellent job. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smokin.gif

[Dr.Freakinstien]

I used sheet metal a little thicker in the location of the 10" extended part ,when I moved the head out 10" I replaced the material with better than stock thickness.I believe overcompesation is never a bad thing.It also has a 1"x1" square tubing frame under it as well.As soon as it isn't freezing outside I'll work on it some more.

[works2hard4u]

These are great if you are using a factory beam setup, but does anyone have info on using a dropped I-beam. I've looked at So-Cal's setup, but would prefer coil over shocks to a leaf spring. B)

[lilbill]

Originally posted by works2hard4u@Dec 29 2003, 06:50 AM
These are great if you are using a factory beam setup, but does anyone have info on using a dropped I-beam. I've looked at So-Cal's setup, but would prefer coil over shocks to a leaf spring. B)
this is where custom fabricating comes in. there are BUNCHES of straight or drop axle front ends available from old stockers to new billets and everything in between. for mounting ideas you can look at regular streetrods and just figure out how to graft similar mounts on a bug pan.

[crack monkey]

somebody here (sorry i forget who, but i remember the car) from the uk willies conversion, once was yellow... anyway he had a mustang set up built for his car and it was bolt on.

[hotrodheb]

Here you go, works2hard... These are from RoadsterCliffs awesome car!

http://photo.starblvd.net/8462/1-1-1.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/8462/2-1-5.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/8462/2-2-2.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/8462/2-2-3.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/8462/3-4-3.jpg

[mikeeboy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>somebody here (sorry i forget who, but i remember the car)  from the uk willies conversion, once was yellow... anyway he had a mustang set up built for his car and it was bolt on.[/b][/quote]
Are you on about wizrods car? If so it was a Cortina setup that was adapted i think...... B)

[mikeeboy]

this should be it (link to wizrod's site)
Wizrod Progress report (http://www.wizrod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aircooled_conversions/text/wizrod/230203.htm#suspension)
Cortina+Transit+Mustang+Vw+Help!
Looks good though eh style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smokin.gif

[hotrodheb]

There is also this one...
http://photo.starblvd.net/~shutupanddrive/5-3-4.jpg

as well as this rendering...
http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1065203456.jpg

[lilbill]

hey cliff, how are you keeping that axle centered without a panhard rod ?

[hotrodheb]

Originally posted by lilbill@Dec 29 2003, 09:13 AM
hey cliff, how are you keeping that axle centered without a panhard rod ?
I think that there is one behind the axle, it just doesn't show in any of the pictures? Unless it's not needed with the coil overs? Seems like it would need one though.

[crack monkey]

he does have one its short and in the front.. . its not shown in those pics.

mike thanks that was it

[Nick]

Don't forget about SoCallok.com's car, teh sell the adapter thingies. Talk to RoadsterCliff also, not sure if the pihrana axle setup kits are still available though
http://www.socalook.com/whatissocal/frontendlow.jpg

Future socallok project style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif
http://www.socalook.com/gallery/smith64/450/smith_vwconvt2.jpg

[Flipper_1938]

http://www.socalook.com/gallery/smith64/450/smith_vwconvt2.jpg


That thing is just plain bad-ass. Does it look like it will be shortened just a bit behind the doors?

[gowjobs]

I think the artist over-did the fore-shortening a touch, though they may invest the time to shorten it through the quarters, I doubt it. I have my own ideas for a simpler way to do it, but I'm going to have to go grab that '58 pan from my folks' back yard to try it.

Dave

[BIG GUS]

Keep them coming Guys & Gals. I am getting some great ideas B) !!!
Attached is a shot of where I am at this point. Got all the new brake parts now, so I can get started again.
Big Gus

[tobiism]

Originally posted by Dr.Freakinstien@Dec 28 2003, 05:20 PM
here is some of my photos on page 2 and 5 I think. http://photo.starblvd.net/DrFreakinstien?st=album&pg=1
Your setup looks killer so far, can I ask what you're going to do about the caster situation? Normal caster shims? As of right now, it looks like it needs a bunch!

[type3rod]

I am seriusly thinking of doing a bug rod similar to either franks "stinkbug" and the so-cal look bug when Im done with the "type 3 rod". I want to use a ford i-beam but dont want to buy the so cal bracket because im not Bill Gates style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yelling.gif . Wondering were,besides searching ebay, I could find a complete Ford front end???

[Nick]

Do a Google search for hot rod parts, etc. There's dozens of places that sells these axles in all forms and stages. Mix and match them, collect them all!

[works2hard4u]

Gus -

What size/type wheels ands tires do you have on that roadster?

[BIG GUS]

Actually it is pretty much in alignment at this point. It looks funny in that shot because the wheels were turned a little to the left!! I am going to check it out more closely later on.
I am thinking about getting some fenderwell panels from Roadster Cliff to have some room for tail lights away from the muffler heat. ;) I'm gonna have to save up for a while to be able to do that.
Big Gus

[BIG GUS]

To Works2hard4u,

I have 185/70/15s on the front with 4.5" wide wheels and 275/60/15s on the back with 10" wide wheels at this point. I imagine that after I get to drive it for a while, I may decide on something different.
:)
Gus

[Jon]

185/70's on 4.5 wide rims ? How wide are the tires and how tall are they ? and where did you get them.
I just don't think I have seen that size before.

Also couldn't you put some tailights in those vents ? or maybe have some that aren't on the body at all. Kinda sticking out in the fenderwell.
I guess it depends on the look you want.

I have always wanted to hack the roof off of one. Maybe next one.

[BIG GUS]

Jon,
The 185/70/15s were on the car when I got it. I think they are a "Big O" brand. That's a pretty big tire store near here!!
Attached is a photo and it's about the same OD as the stock 165/15s.
Gus
I'll try the photo again!!!
Sorry, I Lied!!!! I just got up close and these are the 165s. The 185s were the old worn out meats!!! this photo shows the 165 and one of the 275s that I have for the rear.

[BIG GUS]

HMMMM,
Looks like I'm gonna have to do some polishing on those front Centerline Types!!!
Big Gus

[crack monkey]

you know what is gonna be sweet?.... when somebody is able to bag one of these cars with the front end out in neverland style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[exracer29]

You know, a down and dirty way of acheiving the "suicide look" (front wheels sticking way out in front, would be to extend the pan say 10 inches, and then reverse the trailing arms- that would put the front wheels wayyyy out there... :peek:

[BIG GUS]

I don't want to screw up the great handling charactoristics(SP) that the 70 bug already has. I was just hoping to drop and extend the front axle 2 to 6 inches and make it handle better. The tube and beam axles look realy neat, but I have driven T Buckets and deuce roadsters with those type axles and they didn't drive and corner as well as the ones I drove with the Mustang II and similar conversions.
Anyway my budget won't allow me to get too carried away!!! :D

[Dr.Freakinstien]

There is most likely several other front end options avalible.Mustang II probably has the most servers for parts but I would imagine,TR7,triumph,mg, and others are avalible at smaller prices inn the Parts yard due to the popularity of the 'tang.Find an appropriate way to mount and you should be ready.All will most likey present their own unique problems and solutions.Measurments!My set-up with lowered spindles and new frame head added and extended works well,I think without compremising the basic dynamics too,much.You do how evr have to work the steering anew.I used a r/pin system and extended the steering rod with u-joints.

[type3rod]

Hey Freak, what are your plans for the body??? Any cool mods or ?????

[Dr.Freakinstien]

Chop top,add a metal sun roof and an oval clip.Alum. hood scoop,f-glass hood with recessions,no rear apron.Gloss black or semi.

[BIG GUS]

Looks like the Dropped Ball Joint Spindle Kit is the way to go at this point. If I decide to go with an early Ford type front hood later on, then I could consider the extension and fool with the steering.
Thanks for all the input to this point. My little brain is getting "Clogged Up"!!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[wizrod]

Cheers for the plug Mikeeboy

Here's the latest incarnation of my setup:

http://www.wizrod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aircooled_conversions/pix/wizrod/ifs1_small.jpg

Its the same unit, except that I've 'stretched' it by 5" and dropped it an inch too. As before, it bolts on to the framehead as normal. The (old Mini) rack stays where it was, on top of the tunnel, just behind the framehead. This isn't ideal, as the track rods angle a little further forward that would be ideal, but they pivot exactly in line with the wishbones, so bump steer shouldn't be a problem.

As it stands, it pushes the front wheels forward, such that the front edge of the tyre is in line with the front of the trunk handle - just right for a roadster!

I've also had to 'tub' the area in font of fule tank - mist of what wa the spare wheel well:

http://www.wizrod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aircooled_conversions/pix/wizrod/tub1_small.jpg

That tub stays away from the trunk lid edge seal (jsust), so you could build something like this for a Volksrod with a stock front end.

This is pretty much the as it will be. Its all ready for be bolted back together, except that I'm going to wait a few weeks to let the paint harden up. That'll also give me time to panel in the inner wheel arches, to get a smooth front end look'n'feel. I'm going to sculpt some urethane 'blue' foal, bond it on, and give it a couple of layers of GRP etc before a coat of paint....It should look OK when it all done

[bugdust]

That is SWEEEET!!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[vwfanatic]

here is the Frazer Nash front end extender thanx to Al G style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[type3rod]

Were would that be avalible at??? Looks like the four bolts holding the beam on woulnt be enough????? Do bugs have just bolts holding the beam on??? I know on the type 3's there are plates then bolts.

[papastype1]

Out of production for years. Should be quite simp;e to build and you can modify to lower if you wanted. 4 little bolts are all that keep it on. AL G

[papastype1]

In 1975 the Bugatti kit sold for $795 and the Alfa Romeo for $895. AL G

[gowjobs]

Okay, so I was at a car show today and saw this four-bar setup on a competition-style T-bucket... the owner says it rides and steers well, but it looks bump-steer prone to me.

[gowjobs]

Here's the car that front suspension is on. A wild ride, to be sure:

[slodown]

Would this work for a superbeetle? Just remove enough space from the spare tire area and place in.

[vwfanatic]

Originally posted by slodown@Jul 5 2004, 12:33 PM
Would this work for a superbeetle? Just remove enough space from the spare tire area and place in.
dont think it's quite that easy

[slodown]

VWFanatic, I realize I made it sound too easy...so Ima gonna try to post a pic of what I mean.

[slodown]

Took forever, but here is a rough sketch. Of, course it would make the macpherson strut as I-beam axle streering. Connect to control arm bracket, can be braced to shock tower support. Then bar is made longer than the above T-bucket to support the I-beam closer. Extra support from holes near front of framehead. Stabalizer bar allows for movement up and down and then copy rest of design from t-bucket in regards to new shock layout and side to side. Havent figured out if steering is still rack and pinion or the worm and roller version.


Not like I havve a super but just exploring the options.

[vwfanatic]

looks like a ton of work for something that will put the axle right about where it would interfere with the hood and apron, (unless you have a plan for that) and then you will still have those ugly strut supports sticking out on the side...(or are you removing them?). i dont understand those rear supports either. there has to be an easier way.

[slodown]

just adding a link

Suspension Concepts (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6706&st=0) (has a good diagram of crossover steering)

previous thread with pics of tobias pan/body chop
http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=437
http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?show...topic=1571&st=0 (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1571&st=0)

and interpretation of the comments in there
shortening the pan but not the tube
(just using nicks pics as an example I know he was lowering the pan for the beetle)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/nicanor/images/Floor/7c.jpg

[slodown]

just adding that pic of another front end

looq at dis tang Mcotie (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7017)

http://www.slantsix.org/galleries/jim-fisher/IMG03.JPG

http://www.slantsix.org/galleries/jim-fisher/IMG16.JPG

[Unkl Ian]

There is a simple reason why nobody has even done something like that before.
It's Fucking UGLY.


Without a doubt,that is the UGLYest POS I've seen in a LONG time.

[slodown]

buggy style tube frame (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=903)

[tinbeater]

here's mine
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/tinbeater/stender.jpg
and this is the result
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/tinbeater/stebded2.jpg

[slodown]

Been thinking about an extender for a super beetle that was discussed before on this thread and think I have come up with a better Idea. Also because I might pick up one of the free beetles taht I have been advertising for a guy.

It uses a plate that goes under the framehead or could replace the bottom plate. The support bar attaches to the shock mounts of the body (shocks removed)because IMO the frame head flexes a little. A bent I-beam with leaf spring attaches to the horns and to a stabilizer bar.

The framehead might have to be cut to allow clearance for the horns so that they do not protrude past the hood. I havent figured out steering yet. It's for a fenderless design so the shockmounts and support bar will have to be hidden.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/slodown27/car%20clips/SBFrameheadPlatextender.gif

[slodown]

Griznant is doing awesome work on his extension using a type 3 style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif

check out his intro Griznant "chum bucket" (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6810)

http://www.qtm.net/~persot/rod/rod-suspension-1.jpg

http://www.qtm.net/~persot/rod/rod-10-29-4.jpg

[dayzwalker]

Figured I'd add in another alternative to the stretched wheelbase thread since it hadn't been talked about in here yet.

I used the Socalook front crossmember develped and manufactured by Martin Smith of www.socalook.com The crossmember comes complete with upper shock mounts, panhard bar mount, headlight mounts, and hairpin radius rod mounts. It also comes with a complete parts list of the remainder parts needed that you can buy from speedway motors individually. Speedway Motors is now also offering a full "kit" that they put together specifically for the socalook crossmember. From personal experience, get ready to do alot of fabrication to the speedway parts to get everything to fit together nicely and function properly. Our own Dave Cormack did a write up in an issue not too long ago about the needed fabrication that will need to be done to make the speedway parts fit with the stock vw parts being used and the socallook crossmember. You may also see my members intro page as I included some things that Dave left out of the article. Here are the part #'s for the speedway "kit"...

913-39060 VW I-BEAM AXLE FRONT END KIT $899.95

913-39055 VW TUBE AXLE FRONT END KIT $799.95


Here's also a couple pics of the finished product...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dayzwalker/09-04-04/07.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dayzwalker/09-23-04/MVC-017F.jpg

[Jon]

Dayz, Is that Ft. end any wider than the stock VW beam. I can't tell if its an illusion or if it is truly wider.
Eiter way your car looks fucking cool. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[cdubvdub]

dude your car is sooo bad ass! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif

[hotrodheb]

It is wider. Not sure by how much though?

[slodown]

DuneAdx recent addition to volksrods style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif
Homemade drop axel using VW Parts (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8266)
DuneAdx Intro (http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8231)

[DuneAdx]

I finished the panhard so I'll have more pics up tomorrow.

[Turd Ferguson]

Do any of you guys have that Hot VW's article on the front end installation laying around unused or scannable? It's not listed as a back issue that is available for re-order, and mine got trashed by somebody when I moved. If you have it scanned, and you sent it to me, I'd be sure to send Hot VW's their royalty check...
Russ

[RATRODVW]

I may have an extra copy laying around...what month was it again?

[Griznant]

I'm sure Dave Cormack could hook you up since he did write it. :)

[Turd Ferguson]

I think it was the August issue...I searched frantically for the month, didn't find it, but all of the posts in ref. to it were the last days of July/first days of August. I suppose if Dave has a copy on his computer someplace, that would be easier...of course I'd like the pictures too (beggers CAN be choosers...right?). Even if there was some faults with the early version of the whole set-up, it would at least give me a condensed version of the whole process. If I end up with the Mini-T, I think it would look great with that front set-up on it...I've heard it might have clearance issues with the front of the kit, but I'd like to try to get it all figured out...whew...that was a bit long winded.
Russ

[bugdust]

Originally posted by Griznant@Jan 21 2005, 12:31 PM
I'm sure Dave Cormack could hook you up since he did write it. :)
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



I don't know for sure but I would think that he couldn't just post the article since it has been published, even though he wrote it. Once it's submitted I would guess it belongs to the magazine / publisher. I could be wrong. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[PAPA_SMURF]

Justin- are your wires flat at the hub? or does the center resemble a drum from the backside? Mine are dished and was wondering if I could use them with disks or if i would have to pic up some 1940ish juice drums to make my front brakes work...

[Turd Ferguson]

I was guessing the same thing BugDust, that's why I was trying to just get a scan from somebody.
Russ