buying a welder

[crack monkey]

what welder would you guys suggest i get? i want optional gas and with an autodarkening helmet to keep under 400.00

i remember seeing a lincoln elec 150 at home depot or lowes for like 325... will that work well?

[Ianvwsb73]

I know a bottle of gas is like $75, then plus the helmet, and you're over 400. I think a 500 budget is easier. I remember a few guys on here saying that the 110v MIGs blow balls compared to the 220v. I don't know. It depends on what you're doing, sheetmetal or some structural welding. I know quite a few guys who are happy with 110v MIGs. I'm too broke to get either, but I think for what you like to do a 110v would be fine from what I gathered. I'm sure Nick has all the stats and has already preplotted them. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif

[fyrrmann]

The lincoln sp-125 110v w/ gas is good. Got mine for $400 used. So far its welded everything I needed.

[vwfanatic]

i agree on the lincoln Sp series. Have had my sp100 for almost 10 years and I love it. great little machine. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Nick]

Harbor Freight has helmets for around $80 ($5 shipping). Get a couple clamps from them while you're at it. I have a bunch of more magnets you can have so you don't need to buy those. Get a welding blanket there too, kinda cheap from them (cheaper then ebay actually).

Buying the gas bottle at first is a little pricey, expect about $150 at first then $40 for the refills (give or take). I wouldn't get the small ass bottles, the one I used is the 2.5' high bottle but that wasn't big enough for me so I upgraded to the 3.5' high bottles. I spent an extra $80 to trade up to that bottle, or could've spent an extra $25 in the beginning instead so if you can afford it get the bigger bottle that you can affford (or want to afford).

Budget, you can easily double your $400 budget for a complete setup after tools, etc. My welder's a Campbell Hausfeld, their welders have the gas hookup kit already so you don't have to spend the extra $$ on that.
http://www.chpower.com/index.asp
Mine's the 85 amp WG300000AJ $329 model, add like $80 for shippping I think. Having wheels help alot especially since you don't want to lug around the gas bottle and keep connecting the two together (or build a cart, good first practice project with a welder). For $100 more you can get their 135 amp model. Pretty much IMO get a good welder now that may cost a little more that you wanted, it'll save you alot more $$ in the long run from upgradeing to a better one sooner.

Also tools to get, a good (not one of those $5 flea market ones, only lasts a day on average) angle grinder....I prefer the electric ones, a face shield, metal cutoff discs and a flap jack attachment.

[flamed181]

The auto darkening helmets are very cool but a waste of money if your just starting out get the cheapist you can find.

as for the welder I have used and own all three types millers linclon and hobart
its really a matter of personal taste all the welders I have performe about the same I use the hobart in the shop and the little linclon 125 (110 plug) in the field with flux core wire it works great for fence repair.

be aware there are 2 types of 110volt welders sold the type you see at costco
have smaller duty cycle and dont have as much power but ther'er cheaper
and I think would work fine for someone starting out for a 100 bucks or so more you can go to a welding supply place and get the next step up also dont pay what there asking unless on sale all prices at a welding supply place are flexable.
do you price shopping home work the price from one place to the next can differ
grately.

[Bobnotch]

Yeah, my 110V mig welder was very pricey when I got it some 13+years ago. It's a Snap On mig welder built by Century welding. Its really nice in that I can weld up to 1/4" in one pass (with the machine on its highest settings), or I can weld 26 guage sheet metal on the lower setting. It has a spot and stich feature along with continuous(sp) welding, along with an adjustable wire speed feature. I agree with Nick on bottle size, as I first started with the small bottle (good for about 8 hours max), then moved up to the bigger bottle. My machine also uses an 11 pound roll of wire, so between the bottle and the roll of wire I can stay pretty busy welding for a while. Its really nice to be able to fine tune both the heat and wire speed for your particular welding job. But, it costs more up front to do this. Some day I plan on stepping up to a TIG welder, as that will be my next progression, but for now I'll stick with what I have. As far as helmets go, get the one you like, and one that is comfortable for you. Some like the auto darkening, others (like me) don't. Also some like the picture window shield and others don't, its just preference. This is just a voice of opinion, as I've been welding for over 20 years, and I know what I like, and am comfortable with. I hope this helps.

[420king]

lots of good info here. I think that the auto darkening helmet is good for beginners, it lets them see what they are doing, where as you guys that have been welding for 20 years already know exactly what you are doing, what your machine will do etc etc.

[type3rod]

Wal Mart has decent ones. I think mine was like 2 somthing,comes with a cheapo helmet and all the nesisry stuff.I think there Cambel and Hasfeild,mines 110v I think and its fine for what I use it for.Harbor freight is good to for some low cash.I would sugest going to th Wal to get the actual welder then get all the helmets and hammers and such from Harbor.

[bugdust]

Originally posted by Bobnotch@Jan 6 2004, 01:16 PM
Some like the auto darkening, others (like me) don't.
Glad to hear somone else here doesn't care for the auto-hoods.


EDIT***I used to not like the auto-dark hoods because the one I had before sucked. It was a speedglas and was green and fuzzy. I have a 3n1 now (mine's a Jackson, but otheres have the same lens, like Craftsman) and I love it. I have been using it at work since I got it and will probably never go back to a standard hood.

Just make sur when you buy one that it will accpet standard size cover plates (the clear lens) because some take a smaller, thinner cover plate that is all but impossible to find and others take a funky shaped cover plate that cost $$. DO NOT BUY AN AUTO HOOD OFF EBAY FOR $49!!! A buddy at work bought one of those and it is green and fuzzy and doesn't take standard cover plates. ***END OF EDIT style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[PapaG]

Hey for the old pro, flipping down the hood is great... Burnt eyes for newbies suck..

[BIG GUS]

My good friend Anthony Tellier (Tony) writes for offroad.com and has agreat article where he and a couple other guys did a comparison test on the 110 VAC MIG models:
Millermatic C135
Hobart Handler 125
Hobart Handler 135
Lincoln SP-135T
Weldmark Handler 135

The article is very comprehensive. I wish I had the original he sent me so I could add it to this note.
Anyway, Go to offroad.com and click on DIY Fundamentals, then on 110Volt Mig Welders.
I hope this gets you there!!! If it doesn't, let me know. Meanwhile, I'll get hold of Tony and try to get another copy that I can send out for you.

I am still trying to fit one of these into my budget also!!!!

Also, cameronwelding.com is another great source.

Big Gus B)

[Nick]

I may or may not get a new auto-dimming helmet soon. IF I do I can give you my current one. The switch stopped working (on/off) so I rigged the entire thing, looks like Rono-Frankenstein from the outside now but it still works. But $$ tight (tuition time) so not sure how serious I want a new helmet right now... You're welcome to borrow mine for a month or so if you run out of $$ to get one yourself though.

Also not all welders take the bigger 10lb roll of wires, you may need to buy a kit to adapt them. I started using the bigger rolls instead of replacing the smaller spools every other week, cheaper in the long run to get the big spools. Just something to keep in mind...not all welders accepts bigger spools out of the box nor gas hookups neither without buying their kit$ first. That $300 welder may not look as good a deal as the $400 welder that already has gas and big spool setup out of the box...

[crack monkey]

thanks for the offer nick. i will see what i come up with first

went to home depot and lowes today... they had the lincon hd125 for $325 and the hd135 for $425. the 135 came with the gass hookups and both had the 10lbs spool adapter and a few other bits

leaning to the 135 now

[vwfanatic]

do it do it do it.....come over to the dark side young crack :peek:

[bugdust]

10lb spool...HA!!! Real men get their wire in 600# drums style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif

[Jon]

I don't have a auto darkening helmet. I want one and I like them. I do however have a cheapy $8 Harbor freight helmet without the head strap in it and a piece of plywood screwed to the front of it.
I got tired of the flipping down thing on my other helmet so while I was at Harbor reight I got a cheap on sale one and modified it. It has become so much easier to use that I don't ever use my helmet except if I am having someone hold something or me.

My 110 Mig welder is not that great. Its a old Crapsman. Not varialble heat adjustment just High and Low. I have trouble with burn through even on the low settings sometimes. Like today while welding my hinges in. Frustrated the hell out of me.

[70ghia]

i have the same welder as nick
although i got a hell of a deal on mine
180 bucks brand new in the box and the guy threw in a bad ass
pair of welding gloves pick a couple of wire brushes and a shitty helmet
i never tried wire feed welding before and teh whole flippin down the helmet
really pissed me off so i got a cheap auto darkening job
my welder is really limited in ability but for what i got it for
i wouldnt trade it for the world
really easy to use

[Nick]

Originally posted by bugdust@Jan 6 2004, 10:06 PM
10lb spool...HA!!! Real men get their wire in 600# drums style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif
Here do you get them from, Sam's Club or at BJ's

[crack monkey]

the thing i found reall funny today was that they had the welder cart for like 70 bucks .... when you could just spend 10 on angle iron, 5 for wheels and make your own with your new welder style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif ...

well it amused me anyway. i am going to do a little more looking around before i get one.

[Nick]

Yup, pretty soon you'll be looking at stuff and say "I can build that for 1/2 the price" and stuff, then sometimes you realize how lazy you are so you still buy the overpriced items style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif Oh, and your brother will want you to build him a new rail-thingy to skate on style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif

[bugnut]

:angry: Yes and you get so busy saving money by making things you don't have time for your bugs. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif

[notched]

Hey Crack,

This is the welder that I have:

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/graphics/products/catalog/00002448.jpg

It's a SP-135 Plus by Lincoln.

I've been very happy with it for light duty welding. It's welded every part on my Squareback that I've needed it to. It's very portable, and will plug into any 110v outlet.

I'm not sure if you saw my recent post, but I've recently purchased Lincoln's Aluminium Welding Kit, and it works great! So that is a plus. I'm not sure if the other brands offer that.

I've welded mild steel, stainless and aluminium with this one welder.

The only drawback is that It won't weld steel that is thicker than 5/16" thick -- "Capabilities include welding 24 gauge through 5/16" mild steel plate." So, if you want to weld any thing thicker than that, you'll need a different welder.

If you jump up to a 220v welder, the drawback is that you'll have to wire your garage/shop for 220v, if it isn't. And you'll be limited to one outlet. Not as portable.

My cousin has a 220v Hobart that I borrow for thicker metal, and it welds 1/4" much, much smoother. The extra power makes a big difference.

Also, as stated before, you'll have to buy a tank. I can't remember what tank I bought at first, but it was small, and I ran out of gas quickly. I purchased the next tank up. They credited me for the small one. It's about 2' tall and 10" in diameter. 40#, I think. $75 for the tank filled. If I remember correctly. I actually ended up buying a second tank with 100% Argon for stainless/aluminium. The tank for mild steel is 75%/25% CO2/Argon (or Argon/CO2). style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

Refills are only $19 for my tank size.

I tried the 100% CO2 at first, and I don't think it works as well as the mixed gas.

I actually bought a cart recently. Never had time to build one. Plus I didn't have the capabilities of bending plate. I ended up getting this one:

http://store.weldingdepot.com/html/images/items/migcart.jpg

Except it's black. I figured for $50, I couldn't buy the wheels and metal, and have the metal formed. Plus, building a cart didn't seem too exciting.

The cart was an excellent purchase. I wish I had one when I first bought the welder (5 years ago).

I'd highly recommend a good brand name: Lincoln, Hobart, Miller, etc. If you purchase an off brand, unless it's rebranded by a good brand, you may have a tough time getting one. And watchout for anything made in China. I guarantee they will break, or malfunction.

Hope this helps.

[notched]

Just found some prices on tanks:

20#CYL 20CF HP Cyl w/CGA 580 Argon/All Argon Mixes Valve $50.00

40#CYL 40CF HP Cyl w/CGA 580 Argon/All Argon Mixes Valve $78.00

If I remember correctly, the 100% CO2 tank requires a different valve. You'll have to check to see what the gas regulator will fit. For some reason the tank is expensive:

20#CYL 20LB C02 Cyl w/CGA 320 Carbon Dioxide Valve $84.95

[crack monkey]

my local place had a 20 for $60 and a 60 for $100.... not bad i guess.

i am getting frustrated by my quest for a welder though. i looked at hobart and millers yesterday. the guy told me miller owns hobart. the miller was nice but about 100 more than i really wanted to spend.... but the drive parts are all cast metal and not part plastic like the hobarts and lincolns. the hobart also couldnt dial in the power.... it had predetermined settings. the miller and lincoln had controls that allowed you to 'dial in' more efficeintly.

so i have decided to go with a lincoln 135 but there is another model running around home depot its the lincoln 3200. is this the 135 renamed? i have been looking for some more info and cant find it on their website. the 3200 was like $10 more than the 135 that i saw in another home depot.

the quest continues...

[bugdust]

Technically, Miller doesn't own Hobart, ITW owns both, not that anyone really cares, but...
ITW is a $10 billion multinational manufacturer of highly engineered components and industrial systems with over 365 operations worldwide.

ITW consists of: Hobart Brothers, Elga, Tien Tai, WIA, Hobart Welding Institute, Corex, McKay, Tri-Mark (we use tri-mark (and now ESAB) wire at work), Miller, OXO Welding Equip., Hobart, Tempil, Arcsmith, Weldcraft, Magnaflux, Bernard (we use bernard (and now Tweco and a couple others) water-cooled guns at work), and Hobart Welding Products.

ITW bought Miller Electric in 1993 and Hobart in 1996.

Just a little more of that nickel knowledge that floats around in my head.

The Miller/Lincoln debate is really just a preference thing, just like Ford/Chevy. This post really adds nothing to this topic-one new year's resolution down. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[crack monkey]

yeah it does add something. i was mis spoken (nothing out of the ordinary there :D ) and you corrected. its good info. the miller that the welding supply had was over 100 more and it was a higher end model.... i wound up comparing the hobart more to the lincoln. being in the same pricerange ($20 and with the more expencive one coming with a cart, wire, face shield, 10lbs spool adapter)

the ford/ chevy thing has never been a debate for me...vw all the way style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif

[crack monkey]

i found this on the 3200
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/pr...ature/e7351.pdf (http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e7351.pdf)

and then here is this on the 135
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/e...heet.asp?p=8961 (http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=8961)

looks like the same shit to me.. every spec looks the same to me except that the 3200 states 120v and the 135 sts 115v.... and of course the 3200 has a little cart with it. :rolleyes:

[crack monkey]

i piced up a lincoln 135 today style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif it came with a helmet not one of the hand held shields... so thats cool. the wife looked at the box and said 'thats all it is?'

let the good times roll

[Jon]

Don't knock those hand held sheilds. They come in handy real quick when your crawling around under the the dash welding in a floor or in a fenderwell and the helmet is just in the way. Thats all I use now.

[BousDula]

i'm looking to buy a MIG welder too, but don't knowshit about welding. I want to be able to basically use it for car work, 120 volt, up to 5/16 inch sounds good enough, maybe 3/16.

i don't know what else to look for, any suggestions?

[carcentric]

Anybody ever use this sort of shield?
> http://www.accustrike.com/mig.htm

If it only came with auto-darkening . . . :peek:

[crack monkey]

Originally posted by BousDula@Jan 14 2004, 02:12 AM
i'm looking to buy a MIG welder too, but don't knowshit about welding. I want to be able to basically use it for car work, 120 volt, up to 5/16 inch sounds good enough, maybe 3/16.

i don't know what else to look for, any suggestions?
my only suggestions are what i put up above... good luck

[Kafer_Mike]

If you are going for a Lincoln 135 make sure it's a "135 Plus" rather than the "135T". The "Plus" adds fully adjustable heat settings which is really nice when welding thin sheet. I bought a new Lincoln 135 Plus last summer for ~$450 and love it. It beats the shit out of the $300 Craftsman POS I was using...

[bugnut]

Hey NCBug here is alot of info one welders. Have fun. :)

[bugdust]

Since we have a lot of new people here since this thread started, I thought I'd bring it back up. Plus, I'm looking to buy a welder within a few weeks. I have the $$ just haven't decided what I want yet. I've narrowed it down to the Lincoln 175, the Lincoln 215, the Miller 175, or the Miller 210. I'll be welding heavier stuff than sheetmatal most of the time. These all go down to 30amps, is that low enough for bodywork? I weld 1/2' to 2' all day long but not much thin stuff.


Here are examples of each. I don't know where I'm buying it yet but these are on ebay.
Lincoln 175 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45032&item=3868902969&rd=1)
Lincoln 215 (Type Keywords or Web Addresses here)
Miller 175 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45032&item=3869955130&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)
Miller 210 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45032&item=3869927609&rd=1)

Any thoughts or comments?

[lunatic_magnet]

i went with a hobart 180, got it about a month ago and i'm really happy with it. made by miller, $200 less.

[Bluspecs]

The guys over on the Hobart boards are big fans of the Miller 210

They say if you get that one you'll probably never need to upgrqade it.

They also say that Miller/Hobarts tech support and warranty service is much more user friendly that Lincolns

Check it out, they have all sorts of good information over there

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/

[67type3]

i was going to but a lincoln, but had received very bad reviews about it. paid twice as much and got me a MILLER 468/175. cost me $900 with bottle, welder, cart, acces. excellent weld quality for a 110amp. i can weld upto 1/4" thick metal, eventhough it's max is rated at 3/16".

[Greenbuggy]

I learned to weld on my dad's AC "buzzbox", a 240V-single phase stick welder from craftsman that is probably 15 years old. I could make strong welds with sticks but they were always damn ugly and being sticks, complete with a lot of slag and splatter.

My grandpa saw what I was able to do with the craftsman welder and bought me a Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, 120V, that did flux-core wire. Again, I could make strong welds but being that they were made using flux core they took a lot of cleanup to look very good.

I later upgraded the weld-pak to mig and switched to mig wire, this made really nice looking welds but wasn't very good for bodywork (only 4 heat ranges and variable wire speed). And in my opinion, the lincoln never made very consistent welds...without changing settings the welds could be different on the same metal between strokes, which I didn't like.

After converting to mig I went to work for a farm near where I'm going to school, and got to use the big boys toys...this shop was equipped with everything miller, including a huge miller 3-phase plasma cutter, miller 400 amp stick welder, 300 amp miller mig and spool gun & set-top box for the miller mig to do aluminum with. Yah, I got spoiled.

Shortly after starting there, I purchased a Lincoln 120/240 Plasma cutter good for up to 3/8" thick metal. I absolutely love the thing, it makes fab work take half the time since I'm not grinding away slag all day.

My latest purchase was a 300 amp hobart DC mig welder made around 1975-1980. This welder has 3 heat ranges but is infinitely variable within the 3 (0-100 amps, 0-200 amps, 0-300 amps). This welder ran me $128 on ebay for the welding power source, wire feed box, and a beefy cart for the whole works. The parts I need for this are a mig gun & cable (and no, I'm not using the one off of the 100 amp welder, that would probably melt in my hand), regulator (already have it) and argon tank (already have it).

The problem with the 300 amp box is that it was made for 240 or 440 3-phase, and I can't get 3 phase in my garage. However, being that the welder is a "generator" style rather than a buzzbox, I can swap out the 15 horse electric motor that runs on 3-phase with a different motor that runs on 240 single phase instead. It also helps that my dad works for a company that does HVAC contracting and he's got access to a lot of used motors for free/cheap and the books that will help him cross-reference to get what he needs.


Once I get the 300 amp mig together I'm going to start looking at upgrading the craftsman "buzzbox" that my dad and I share to a higher quality DC stick welder, and then looking at getting a tig set-top box and learning tig.

[georgiaboy]

the welding industry has come along way with the new type machines great improvement with the mig welder especially with in 1 hour of purchase you can be making productive welds and not even be able to spell weld, its great. and no matter the make make sure its copperwound for life of the machine more than quads the aluminum ones lifespan.but its hard to beat any of the small lincoln "gas shielded" migs for any welding on a project car frame or body.i'm thinking of getting me a wall plug mig but kinda waiting to let them come on down in price some in which they will i hope style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif .one more good machine maker rare to find but the name is strohmburg i think the spelling might be off a little but my grand-pa had one i think it was a 200 amp mig welder old but it was a charm to weld with he was real particular about his welding everthang had to be just picturebook perfect ,and that it was too..........and the hoods have come along also and like everthang you get what you pay for............the auto-hoods are a god send in my opinion as far as working alone .the flipping of the lense is the way i learned and grant you i've got my old standby "pipe liner" behind the seat of my truck in case of technical difficultybut i have found auto-darkening hoods are more suitable for me as far as "fitting" for myself.........durable yes been using them the last 9 years and only owned 3 a Selstrom, lincoln journeyman and the present speedglas "utility".persperation got the first two my fault no telling how long they would have lasted.the Speedglas "utility"cost $189. its got an offset front coverplate for better lense cooling for the blind welder like me who gets a little to close to the blue light and better breathe down draft to help prevent fogging and don't weight much more than your ballcap...........but i've only had it 3 months so.... we will see. its batterie powered (don't trust solar powered anything) when there dead you change the two "AAA batteries"and rock on..........................the better hoods for the money are made in Sweden and they will fuck-up two hundred dollars quick......................but a good welding machine will be the foundation of your work and get a quality machine would be wiser and just get the $20 hood to start sorry about the long ass talk.................good luck style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Tbone16]

What about tig? Can anyone tig? I can do it a little bit, but It seems like the only way we ever look to make two pieces of metal one, is migging. What about brazing and bottle welding?

[bugdust]

I can TIG a little. I've done a little bit at a machine shop I used to work in but I'm not good enough at it to where I would put it on a job application. There are a few guys here that do oxy/actylene welding and prefer it for sheetmatel work. I've said it befoe and I'll say it again, stick welding has no place in a garage. I've certainly done my share building equipment trailers, livestock trailers, bushhogs, repairing log trailers, etc. It's great for that, especially out in the field welding on paint and dirt in the wind. I MIG weld everyday at work. welding and fitting is pretty much all I do. I use a Lincoln DC-600 with a good ol' LN-7 wire feeder, a Bernard water-cooled whip, and Tri-Mark Metalloy 76 1/16" metal-core wire.

I've used Lincolns, Millers, Hobarts, Lindes, Westinghouse, and other brands of welders. I like Lincoln, I like Miller. I used an old Linde that was probably the smoothest machine I've ever welded with. Now, I need a welder for here at the house. I would go with one of the 135s but I am always welding thicker plate it seems. I'm using a miller 185 now (neighbor's) or a miller 200 (brother's). I built a drop hammer for a buddy's dock building business a couple of month's ago. Basically, it's a 10" dia. tube, 3/8" thick, 60" long. I just cut a round plate out of some 1" he had and put 18" down then welded it with a 1/2" weld (3 pass). Then I filled the 18" up with scrap and some old lead wheel weights, ran the torch over all that. Then I cut another pice of the 1' round 13' dia. and welded to the top of it with another 1/2' weld. Finally, I welded a 1' thick lifting lug to the top so he can lift it with the crane before dropping it. It works good, but I had the Miller 185 cranked all the way up and I would have liked a little more amperage. That's why I'm thinking about the 175 or the 210-215. But, I still want to be able to use .035 or smaller wire and turn down the amps to weld sheetmetal and then switch to .045 or .052 for the thicker stuff. All the machines I listed aboce only go down to 30amps instaed of the 25 i'd like for a bug body. Like I said before, I'm good at the thicker stuff, not so good at the thin stuff. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif

OK, who actually read all that and who skimmed through?? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Jon]

Hey Charlie, Did you get a certification, go to a school ...... I am just curious. I have been considering it and been thinking about maybe just adding to my skill list.
Also I forgot to mention I bought a torch. Now I just gotta get some tanks, I am just gonna rent them at first. Then I will buy some later on.

[RATRODVW]

Originally posted by bugdust@Jan 27 2005, 03:15 PM
I can TIG a little. I've done a little bit at a machine shop I used to work in but I'm not good enough at it to where I would put it on a job application. There are a few guys here that do oxy/actylene welding and prefer it for sheetmatel work. I've said it befoe and I'll say it again, stick welding has no place in a garage. I've certainly done my share building equipment trailers, livestock trailers, bushhogs, repairing log trailers, etc. It's great for that, especially out in the field welding on paint and dirt in the wind. I MIG weld everyday at work. welding and fitting is pretty much all I do. I use a Lincoln DC-600 with a good ol' LN-7 wire feeder, a Bernard water-cooled whip, and Tri-Mark Metalloy 76 1/16" metal-core wire.

I've used Lincolns, Millers, Hobarts, Lindes, Westinghouse, and other brands of welders. I like Lincoln, I like Miller. I used an old Linde that was probably the smoothest machine I've ever welded with. Now, I need a welder for here at the house. I would go with one of the 135s but I am always welding thicker plate it seems. I'm using a miller 185 now (neighbor's) or a miller 200 (brother's). I built a drop hammer for a buddy's dock building business a couple of month's ago. Basically, it's a 10" dia. tube, 3/8" thick, 60" long. I just cut a round plate out of some 1" he had and put 18" down then welded it with a 1/2" weld (3 pass). Then I filled the 18" up with scrap and some old lead wheel weights, ran the torch over all that. Then I cut another pice of the 1' round 13' dia. and welded to the top of it with another 1/2' weld. Finally, I welded a 1' thick lifting lug to the top so he can lift it with the crane before dropping it. It works good, but I had the Miller 185 cranked all the way up and I would have liked a little more amperage. That's why I'm thinking about the 175 or the 210-215. But, I still want to be able to use .035 or smaller wire and turn down the amps to weld sheetmetal and then switch to .045 or .052 for the thicker stuff. All the machines I listed aboce only go down to 30amps instaed of the 25 i'd like for a bug body. Like I said before, I'm good at the thicker stuff, not so good at the thin stuff. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif

OK, who actually read all that and who skimmed through?? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
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...tig...Hobart...thicker plate...drop hammer...torch...amperage...

I skimmed it!! What do I win?!? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[bugdust]

Jon, I took a 1 year course at Bradford-Union Vo-Tech in Starke back in 1993. I certified in stick and mig but I don't remember exactly which certifications I had now. When I started at Canam Steel in 95 I re-certified to their standards, not to AWS's standards. Then when I started with Caterpillar in 97, I certified to AWS 14.3-82R/MC 1000-105?? I know I passed the 1G, 2G, 3G, 1F, & 2F unlimited thickness GMAW for Caterpillar. That's all they wanted. So, yes I took a course and yes I've been certified but only for ASTM A-36 steel with a mig, flat, horizontal, & vertical up. I think that's what all that crap means style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif


But none of that means anything unless you're welding submarines or powerplants or oil rigs or underwater, etc. I've known literally hundreds, if not thousands of welders and only a very small percentage had current certification papers. The average welder can usually walk in and take a basic weld test and get the job id he has a decent amount of similar experience.

[RATRODVW]

Yeah....






















but what do I get!?!? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Spyke]

Originally posted by Tbone16@Jan 27 2005, 05:48 PM
... What about brazing and bottle welding?
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I just ordered a Meco Midget torch from tinmantech.com (http://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_midget_torch.html). I had been using a bargain basement torch that used to be my dad's, but finally decided to spend the money on something better.

The Meco is about the size of a pack of cigs and works great for sheetmetal work. I used one at school when I welded up a gas tank for my old Ducati, it's very light and easy to use. The torch itself cost about $100, and I also bought a few different size tips and some lightweight hose.

I like the versatility of a torch - Welding, brazing, heating, cutting, though most of what I screw around with can be cut by hand.

I'll probably buy a mig welder someday, or maybe a tig, but for now the old school ways work just fine for what I'm doing. I figure if my Ghia was put together with a torch, I should be able to fix it with one too! And... this will probably sound corny.. but there's something kind of relaxing about gas welding. Until of course some joker sneaks up behind you and slams a big hammer down on the bench while you're trying to not blow holes in a 30 year old gas tank! Ask me how I know.... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif

[hotrodheb]

Originally posted by Tbone16@Jan 27 2005, 01:48 PM
What about tig? Can anyone tig? I can do it a little bit, but It seems like the only way we ever look to make two pieces of metal one, is migging. What about brazing and bottle welding?
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I watched Walt tig weld some sheet metal, (even tried it myself style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif ) and I have to say that...

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:red"><span style="font-family:Impact">Walt is Mr. Tig!!!</span></span></span>
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif

[crack monkey]

i have been reall happy with my lincoln. does all that i need it too.

one upside to the miller over the lincoln is that the drive rollers in the miller are metal... in the lincoln(and hobart i think) they are plastic. so if you are going to do tons of welding i would say get the miller for the extra $$. but if you are like me and touch it a few times a month... get the lincoln

[georgiaboy]

if you have to make a weld on thicker metal and your mig-welder may seem to low on amperage ,you can take and heat your base metal up some before welding it this will give you the penetration you need.............try it on some scrap it works just some more sawmill tricks....................i have a buddy who does the brazing and he is a bad dude when it comes to bodywork but he uses a mig mostly now and tig welding to me would be a little to hot for the body panels not to draw or warp.i'm a certified contract welder and i don't know much but i know a little and just trying to be helpful...........good luck fellers and don't burned down your shop style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

hey bugdust is that a shipyard mig set-up with wire in the paper drum?i have heard my brother-in-law cuss those sob's i bet it'll work your as off you reckon? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[CMD]

Originally posted by Tbone16@Jan 27 2005, 01:48 PM
What about tig? Can anyone tig? I can do it a little bit, but It seems like the only way we ever look to make two pieces of metal one, is migging. What about brazing and bottle welding?
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If you can gas weld; you can Tig. I used to make everything with an Ox/Acetylene torch and a Lincoln 225 buzzbox. To weld aluminum; I added a Century Hi-Freq TIG unit, which worked for a while, but you never have enough amps and then you need DC. It never ends! I now have a Miller Syncro wave 351 ( 400 amps AC/DC, Tig, Stick, + Pulsed Tig), a 251 Mig(300 amp) with a spool gun for Aluminum and Flux core and a 40 amp Thermal-Dynamics plasma cutter. I think I'm covered! Finally!
My advice is to buy the BEST you can afford, because you will quickly out grow it and need more! Aluminum welding gives you much greater fabrication options and it's much neater looking. Usually the equipment will pay for itself with a few side jobs!
Mig welding is simple and easy, but not the best choice for aluminum or critical welds. Welding classes accommodate all levels of welders; you can always learn something new. I welded for years before attending classes and they were a good investment, even at the hobbiest level. Certification sounds good, but you never have what you need from job to job, as there are so many and for specific applications. if you weld for a living; you get what you need.
Considering I don't weld for a living; I'm a little over equipped, but I've found that there is no such thing! Buy more than you think you need and you'll grow into it. Most quality equipment appreciates in value, if you take care of it......................Good luck. CMD

[bugdust]

Originally posted by georgiaboy@Jan 30 2005, 01:15 AM
hey bugdust is that a shipyard mig set-up with  wire in the paper drum?i have heard my brother-in-law cuss those sob's i bet it'll work your as off you reckon? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
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I work for Caterpillar building attchments for the wheel loader division, basically General Purpose buckets, multi-purpose buckets, rakes, fork frames, material handling arms, and couplers. We also build some forestry saws. We switched to the 600# drums when we switched to the metal-core wire. I don't work any harder, less actually. A 44# spool lasts about a shift and takes 10 minutes to change, a 66# spool lasts a shift and a half and takes 20 minutes to change. The 600# drum lasts over a month and takes about 30 minutes to change because you have to blow out the liner and machine every time. Thats the bad part, the wire has to come out of the drum, up along the swivel beam that hold the wire feeder and then into the whip. That's about 30'.

For anyone that hasn't tried metal core wire, it's the shit!! It flows into the metal much nicer than solid wire. You run it similar to flux-core as in you don't have to manipulate the puddle at all. But, you push it about 10 degrees instead of dragging it. It's almost like spray transfer since the wire deposits in a wider pattern compared to solid wire. I use 1/16" (.063) set at 300 IPM, 32volts and about 310 amps. I can do a 3/8" (10mm) weld in a single pass way faster than I could do a 1/4" (6mm) with .052. And for a multi-pass weld, say 1" or so that would take 27 passes with the .052 I can do in about 18-20 with the .063 because of the bigger wire size and the better deposit rate. This stuff is also rated at 76k # tensile strength, compared to 60 or 70 for most other standard wires. The .052 we used to use was an ER70S wire. I like welding.

georgiaboy, I'm just like you, I don't know much but I know a little. where are you in GA? We ship a lot of saws to LaGrange.

[georgiaboy]

i work totally portable for several paving companies in and around columbus i do their plant maintenance and the road building equipement mostly cat with some komatsu &john deere its a living mostly i deal in 1/2"PL and thicker alotta bucket repairs especially those rock buckets and i have a plastic pipe plant,two cloth treatment plants and a none ending list of loggers and land developers but i love my work and would not trade it for nothing................but when you burn all day its hard to get into it when you get home even if you like the project...........most of the time i say i'm going to my shop and work but alot of times i fall asleep style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleeping.gif setting in my hotrod.....................

[bugdust]

Originally posted by RATRODVW@Jan 27 2005, 09:04 PM
Yeah....






















but what do I get!?!? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
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Somehow I missed your posts. It doesn't matter because you get NOTHING!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif

Oh, I bought a Lincoln PowerMig 255. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Dancing.gif I'll post more once it gets here. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Dancing.gif

[RATRODVW]

Originally posted by bugdust+Feb 22 2005, 06:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bugdust @ Feb 22 2005, 06:56 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-RATRODVW@Jan 27 2005, 09:04 PM
Yeah....






















but what do I get!?!? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



Somehow I missed your posts. It doesn't matter because you get NOTHING!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif

Oh, I bought a Lincoln PowerMig 255. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Dancing.gif I'll post more once it gets here. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Dancing.gif
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[/b][/quote]



Dammit!! All that skimming for nothing...Bastard... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif

[bugdust]

I finally got my new (to me) welder here. It's a sweet Lincoln PowerMig 255. I "borrowed" the wire & gas from my neighbor's machine just to try it out today. It works very nice. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub.gif I should have it and my compressor working within a two weeks at most. I've got to move the 16x16 building and dig a trench for the wire.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/bugdust69/Misc/DSC00805.jpg

[walt]

Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller

And that's all I'm going to say about it.

[bugdust]

Originally posted by walt@Mar 6 2005, 01:40 PM
Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller Miller

And that's all I'm going to say about it.
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style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif To me that's like ford v. chevy.
I've used my share of Millers but I've used way more Lincolns and every major company I've worked for used Lincoln. Chestnut Displays, canam steel, Caterpillar. Most of the small shops I've worked in used Miller. You can't go wrong with either one. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[pistolpete76]

i dont know about different gauge metals and stuff, but say i weld another front beam or what i mostly want to do is weld up bike frames and make some mini chopper bikes etc, just for hobby sake., would i be better of with just an arc welder like what i used for my beam, or would a wire feed welder like the harbor freight 90 amp flux welder be better ? I know they both dont compare to what you guys do but its just for samll random stuff. so you guys know how thing bike frame tubing is...what would you recomend me for the cheapy welders to do this kind of thing? other stuff would be like welding angle iron etc at the most whatever gauge that is. i know i can weld that with an arc welder but would this wire feed be a tidier unit?

[bugdust]

A 135 amp machine will do all that. Try to stay away from the stick welder and the flux-core for the bike frames and such. While they will work the MIG will give you a much cleaner looking weld. I'd choose a stick welder over flux anyday but gas MIG is the way to go. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[VW_tayder]

i took a two year vo tech corse in high school and got certified in MIG and TIG for both aluminium and steel...when i was there i got a chance to use their very wide veriety of welders and i never really liked one over other both weld just the same to me..(i agree with the "ford vs. chevy" part)not a huge fan of hobart though..

[ConductorX]

Originally posted by notched@Jan 7 2004, 01:55 AM
Just found some prices on tanks:

20#CYL 20CF HP Cyl w/CGA 580 Argon/All Argon Mixes Valve $50.00

40#CYL 40CF HP Cyl w/CGA 580 Argon/All Argon Mixes Valve $78.00

If I remember correctly, the 100% CO2 tank requires a different valve. You'll have to check to see what the gas regulator will fit. For some reason the tank is expensive:

20#CYL 20LB C02 Cyl w/CGA 320 Carbon Dioxide Valve $84.95
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There is an adapter piece to use straight CO2 on a mixed regulator.

I made my cart from an old pressure washer cart. Already had wheels.

[Jon]

Get a Mig no matter what. Flux core will mean that you will spend alot of extra time cleaning up your welds....
Time is money, I don't know about you but my free time has value as well. If I can save some time doing something for myslef its more time I can spend doing something else. Get it ?

Also I have a Harbour freight Auto Darkening helmet now. If you watch them you can get them for $29 sometimes usually around $39. Works great for me. If it doesn't last a long time I will just get another cheap one and it will still be cheaper than the expensive one. If i welded everyday for a living then maybe I would buy the expensive ones.

[Tbone16]

I dont think a millermatic running flux core is built to weld sheet metal. It says its not on the setitng chart, but I welded in pans in my hoopty, which was somwhat of a bitch, but it worked.

[RyanB]

Arc/Stick Welders...

I am looking at a few of them. I'd like to stay in the $250 range. I did however put one on here for $350. I am leaning heavily on the one from Home Depot. Any of you have any input on these welders? Used any of them? Suggestions? Price is of concern of course but I want something that works well, so I doubt I'd go the Harbor Frieght route. Do any of you have a suggestion for a welder that I havent put on my list?

This is basically to compliment my Henrob/Cobra Oxy-Acetelyne Gas setup when I need to weld things 1/4" and more. Doesnt hurt for really fast Tack welds either right? ;)


Lincoln Electric
AC225S Welder
Model K1170
$249.99
This welder has a wide range that I can set up from 40-225 Amps. It also comes with a Face shield, however I want to buy an Auto-Darkening shield.
Home Depot, Local Company

Clarke® Arc 240TE 220 Volt 240 Amp Arc Welder
$254.95 + $65 Shipping/Handling
THis welder appears to have a dial for the 40-210 amps. However it's not as clear as the Lincoln.
Welding Depot.com, Online

Chicago electric 80/160 Arc Welder
$149.95
This welder only has 2 settings. Also Amperage is a bit low? Course it is from Harbor Freight, it was the biggest one they had from what I can see.
Harbor Freight, Local Company

Hobart Stickmate AC Welder — 205 Amp, 230 Volt, Model# 500502
$249.99 + Free shipping
This welder has a range from 30-205 Amps. Says it can weld up to 1/2 inch Thick.
Northerntool.com, Online

Thunderbolt XL AC
Part # MIL 903641
$350
This welder has a range from 40-300 amps. Is made by Miller?
Quimby Corp, Local Company

[Nick]

For bodywork I don't think you want an Arc or stick welder. Mig with gas is the way to go. Mig w/flux core wire (gassless) would be the next best thing but still I HIGHLY recommed spending an extra $100 for a gas hookup compatible Mig setup.

[Juliet]

Okay, I've come to the conclusion that I need to buy a welder and learn how to use it before I do anything else, buggy-wise. From reading this whole thread (at work! Thank goodness no actual business interrupted my reading!) I've concluded I need something like a bigger 110 volt or small 220 volt MIG/wire-feed welder (I am assuming these terms mean the same thing--slap a big "DUH" sticker on me if I'm wrong).

Here's my question. Can an ordinary joe (or in this case, "plain ol' jane") learn how to use a MIG welder well just by picking it up and playing with it? I mean, how do I know when I can safely weld up a buggy frame? :Idunno: Are their books to read or something? Do I need to have somebody come over and walk me through it? Do I need a bizillion hours of experience before I tackle welding up a buggy frame? :confused:

Way back when, when my dad taught me to stick weld, he made me whack all the joints on the bike rack we'd made with a big hammer (small sledgehammer) afterwards to make sure I'd gotten good welds. I'm thinking that's really not the best way to know if they're good. (But they all held!)

[bigguy]

practice makes perfect but there should be a description of what to look for in a weld somewhere in the minds on here.pics usually work the best for me.i would say try thin metal then work your way up from there.

[Nick]

Practice, practice, practice. And start off with a gas hookup. I read a book before trying but it doesn't help too much IMO. It took me about an hour's worth of continuous welding (about a tank of gas) befor trying on an actual project. Practice on some scrap, weld and grind then smack it with a hammer. It shouldn't come apart if done right. Then practice in more real worl stuff like cutting a scrap fender in half then welding it back together or something like that. A good finished welding IMO is 33% welding and 33% grinding and 33% problem solving (for fabrication). Get a decent angle grinder and get used to it.

[Juliet]

Originally posted by Nick@Oct 19 2005, 01:52 PM
Get a decent angle grinder and get used to it.
Quoted post


Yes, Fine! I have NO tools! Thanks for rubbing it in! Doing something on the cheap can be SOO expensive!

[bigguy]

if you have a harbor freight around ,you can pick up a cheap grinder and a cheap saws all.i use mine all the time and no problems so far with it.also they have a 1 year warranty on the grinder unsure of the saws all though.

[dt113]

Originally posted by bigguy@Oct 19 2005, 02:11 PM
if you have a harbor freight around ,you can pick up a cheap grinder and a cheap saws all.i use mine all the time and no problems so far with it.also they have a 1 year warranty on the grinder unsure of the saws all though.
Quoted post


Something NOT mentioned here. You MUST protect your eyes, at all times. Don't do anything without eye protection! A good pair of wrap around safety glasses, or a full face shield.

Take the advice from someone, that has 1 good one left. :sad:

[georgiaboy]

Originally posted by Juliet@Oct 19 2005, 10:40 AM
Okay, I've come to the conclusion that I need to buy a welder and learn how to use it before I do anything else, buggy-wise. From reading this whole thread (at work! Thank goodness no actual business interrupted my reading!) I've concluded I need something like a bigger 110 volt or small 220 volt MIG/wire-feed welder (I am assuming these terms mean the same thing--slap a big "DUH" sticker on me if I'm wrong).

Here's my question. Can an ordinary joe (or in this case, "plain ol' jane") learn how to use a MIG welder well just by picking it up and playing with it? I mean, how do I know when I can safely weld up a buggy frame?  :Idunno: Are their books to read or something? Do I need to have somebody come over and walk me through it? Do I need a bizillion hours of experience before I tackle welding up a buggy frame?  :confused:

Way back when, when my dad taught me to stick weld, he made me whack all the joints on the bike rack we'd made with a big hammer (small sledgehammer) afterwards to make sure I'd gotten good welds. I'm thinking that's really not the best way to know if they're good. (But they all held!)
Quoted post
  the mig welder is one of the best things to come along for the weekend welder. It is fairly simple and should be able to make any small home welding chore a breeze if you have been set on the right track from the get-go.i suggest you read every thing on welding that you can get your hands on an talk about it to anyone you know that is associated with it.your best option is your local welding supplier they should be more than happy to help you with the initial start-up and dos and don'ts about your machine that you purchase from them,that is the key buying from them.most of the guys running the supply shops are pretty good at showing "good looking women" such as your avatar suggests how to start out(i know i would).the other option is a tech course or date a welder as long as it takes to get up and running.rod-on.

Or put me up for the week-end and i will come weld-up your buggie frame for you................hahahaha!rod-on.

[alltypesvw]

Originally posted by Juliet@Oct 19 2005, 03:06 PM
Doing something on the cheap can be SOO expensive!
Quoted post


that's very true, but look at it this way (and this is how businesses look at it) there is the initial cost of getting the tools, the spplies, and the cost of learning... but once you get over that hurdle.... all the rest are dead cheap.

if you can get that buggy done up how you want it, you can do any car how you want it.

[Juliet]

Okay, I found the Harbor Freight web site. What do you think about this Hobart welder? Would this be powerful enough to weld a tube frame together?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...temnumber=55236 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=55236)
And also, what else will I need to buy?
So far, I know I will also need: a welding mask - a gas bottle (what kind?) - wire (again, what kind?) - an electric grinder - do I need to worry about getting extra tips? - Will I need to have one of those chipper/hammer/wire brush dealies?

What else???

Thanks in advance for answering all million of my newbie questions. I'll send you a nudie picture or something (yea, a close-up of my best friend's father-in-law's belly button, complete with belly hair and lint).

[P. J. Zilliox]

Originally posted by Juliet@Oct 20 2005, 01:00 PM
Okay, I found the Harbor Freight web site. What do you think about this Hobart welder? Would this be powerful enough to weld a tube frame together?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...temnumber=55236 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=55236)
And also, what else will I need to buy?
So far, I know I will also need: a welding mask - a gas bottle (what kind?) - wire (again, what kind?) - an electric grinder - do I need to worry about getting extra tips? - Will I need to have one of those chipper/hammer/wire brush dealies?

What else???

Thanks in advance for answering all million of my newbie questions. I'll send you a nudie picture or something (yea, a close-up of my best friend's father-in-law's belly button, complete with belly hair and lint).
Quoted post


I have a copy of Richard Finch's Welder's Handbook. It's thorough, but written in plain English a beginner can understand. (I put myself in that category, too.) Finch also wrote another book for Monster Garage called How to Weld Damn Near Anything. For all I know, could be the exact same book with more tattooed guys in the pictures.

Both books are available at Amazon.com, but you can probably find one or the other at your local Borders.

[Juliet]

Originally posted by P. J. Zilliox@Oct 24 2005, 10:06 AM
For all I know, could be the exact same book with more tattooed guys in the pictures.
Quoted post


Pictures of tattooed guys? Hmmm, THAT makes my choice easier!