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-   -   Cheap or Correct? (http://volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34727)

tattooed_pariah November 11th, 2011 11:28 AM

Cheap or Correct?
 
So I know I should do it the right way, but I'm thinking the cheap way could work too..

I've got a bolt stuck on my motorcycle engine, it requires a 5mm allen to remove but whoever worked on it last COMPLETELY stripped the allen portion, it's a round hole instead of a hexagon..

I'm thinking the "right" way is to buy some extractor drill bits, back it out, and buy a replacement bolt, but I have this OCD, wasteful problem where if I buy a handtool, I always buy Craftsman (I know, I'm a victim of the marketing placebo effect.. I just like all my tools to match and all my hand tools right now are Craftsman..), and the extractor kits are $30..

What i'm thinking is VERY carefully JB Welding an old allen wrench into the bolt, being especially careful to make sure it stays lined up and does not drip onto the case.. then using my angle grinder to cut it off so it leaves a hex rod sticking out about an inch and using a socket to grab that and unscrew it.

The "cheap" way, I can just reuse the bolt in one of the spots that is hidden by the subframe so it won't really be visible..

What are your guys' opinions on this? am I setting myself up for headaches and failure? or does this seem like a good kludge to get a task done? :Idunno:

Unkl Ian November 11th, 2011 11:41 AM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Weld and nut onto the head of the bolt.

And hope the steel bolt isn't galled in the Aluminum case.

tattooed_pariah November 11th, 2011 11:52 AM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkl Ian (Post 525864)
Weld and nut onto the head of the bolt.

And hope the steel bolt isn't galled in the Aluminum case.

no welding capability yet :(

plus the reason I can't use one of the extractors that grips the outside of the bolt head is because the case kinda wraps around the bolt.. I can grab it with vice grips but there's no room to turn it once they're locked on.. :/

The rest of them came out pretty easy once liquid wrench was applied so I'm hopeful this one will too (they all got a nice coating of that and wd-40 a few times in the last week.. :P )

bigguy November 11th, 2011 12:48 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Can you pound in the next size allen into the round hole and get it out that way. Or slice the top with a dremel and use a screw driver.

Scavenger November 11th, 2011 12:50 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
I say blow the engine up with some decent explosives, I'm sure the bolt will somehow end up coming out. I'm just joshin ya brother. If it were me I would just drop the $30 and do it the right way. That way down the line if you ever find yourself in a similar pinch you'll have what you need to get it done. That's just my opinion anyways, and opinions are like assholes....everyone's got one and they all stink.

Stay sleazy,
Scavenger

BKerryFTW November 11th, 2011 12:52 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Don't reuse the bolt. That will be a pain to deal with later. Instead, just get a new bolt.

As for using JB weld, you can try it, but if you spill it, you are SOL. I personally would fork over the 30 slammers, and that way you would have it for the future bolts (yes, there will be more).

Good luck.

tattooed_pariah November 11th, 2011 12:54 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigguy (Post 525868)
Can you pound in the next size allen into the round hole and get it out that way. Or slice the top with a dremel and use a screw driver.

possibly, but doubtful.. I tried a 5.5mm allen and it seems waay to big..

Hadn't thought about turning it into a screw though.. may give that a try.. I'm less likely to permanently attach it to the case with a dremel than I am with JB Weld.. :wink:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scavenger (Post 525869)
I say blow the engine up with some decent explosives, I'm sure the bolt will somehow end up coming out. I'm just joshin ya brother. If it were me I would just drop the $30 and do it the right way. That way down the line if you ever find yourself in a similar pinch you'll have what you need to get it done. That's just my opinion anyways, and opinions are like assholes....everyone's got one and they all stink.

Stay sleazy,
Scavenger

haha, that might cause problems during the "empty the internals and put them in the new case" phase of this project.. ;)

Normally I'm all about any and every excuse to buy new tools, but as of late, money has been really tight so I'm trying to be more responsible and not spend if I don't have to.. part of my hurry to get this bike running again is I imagine filling a 4 gallon motorcycle tank with regular gas will be cheaper than a 19 gallon Challenger tank with premium ;)

cfvwtuner November 11th, 2011 02:17 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
If it's an allen head, just drill out the head. The drill will stay centered enough because of the cavity in the head. Use a drill the size of the threaded portion.
Once the head of the bolt comes off, just take off the part and then unscrew the remains of the bolt.

tattooed_pariah November 11th, 2011 02:46 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cfvwtuner (Post 525876)
If it's an allen head, just drill out the head. The drill will stay centered enough because of the cavity in the head. Use a drill the size of the threaded portion.
Once the head of the bolt comes off, just take off the part and then unscrew the remains of the bolt.

i'm trying to reuse the bolt if I can.. I'm sure I can find another one or a similiar one easy enough, but if I don't have to replace it, I'd rather not.

RichG November 11th, 2011 05:04 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Replace the bolt or face the very real possibility of having to go through this again someday... but with the added knowledge that you were too stubborn to do it right in the first place. Trust me, it's special feeling when you realize you just screwed yourself!

tattooed_pariah November 11th, 2011 05:20 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichG (Post 525903)
Replace the bolt or face the very real possibility of having to go through this again someday... but with the added knowledge that you were too stubborn to do it right in the first place. Trust me, it's special feeling when you realize you just screwed yourself!

I'm hoping to not have to rebuild the engine again.. barring cracking the case like the PO, I should be able to keep this engine alive until I sell the bike..

And aside from just matching the pitch/threads to an unrelated bolt. it's difficult to find just ONE bolt for a motorcycle that's 20+ years old.. Only place I've seen em so far is a guy on ebay who is selling the cooling fins for the cylinder.. I don't really wanna spend $30 for fins I don't need in order to get a bolt..

Double D November 11th, 2011 06:26 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cfvwtuner (Post 525876)
If it's an allen head, just drill out the head. The drill will stay centered enough because of the cavity in the head. Use a drill the size of the threaded portion.
Once the head of the bolt comes off, just take off the part and then unscrew the remains of the bolt.

This is great advise!
Stop being a cheap ass and buy a new bolt.....there are many bolt suppliers who can match up what you need.
"spend a little now or a lot more later"

Unkl Ian November 11th, 2011 06:31 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tattooed_pariah (Post 525878)
i'm trying to reuse the bolt if I can..





Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.


I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.

bigguy November 11th, 2011 06:53 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Always love the brutal honesty on this site at times. Especially when i know Matt will understand and not get all uptight.

tattooed_pariah November 11th, 2011 07:43 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D (Post 525918)
This is great advise!
Stop being a cheap ass and buy a new bolt.....there are many bolt suppliers who can match up what you need.
"spend a little now or a lot more later"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkl Ian (Post 525919)
Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.

I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigguy (Post 525921)
Always love the brutal honesty on this site at times. Especially when i know Matt will understand and not get all uptight.


haha, yeah I can take the abuse cause I know you guys are dishing it out justly :P

I know there is more abuse coming though, cause I just attempted plan A (use a dremel to put two slots in the outer ring and try a screwdriver), my screwdriver blades aren't quite wide enough, so no dice there..

Now I'm waiting for plan B to cure. I've got like 3 full sets of allens, so I just put a dab of JB weld on the long end of one, gonna let it harden for 24 hours, then cut off about half an inch and see if I can't use a socket to get it out.

If that doesn't work I'll get the damn thing out one way or another and move along.. :P

Thanks for the ideas and ass-kicking encouragement though :)

ya know, if we could figure out a way to turn ass-kicking into a magical money making machine, we'd all have built like 6 Volksrods by now! well... except the pansy ass whining newbs who would only make like $5 in the deal before crying and never coming back ;P

dt113 November 11th, 2011 08:12 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tattooed_pariah (Post 525926)
my screwdriver blades aren't quite wide enough, so no dice there..

Now I'm waiting for plan B to cure. I've got like 3 full sets of allens, so I just put a dab of JB weld on the long end of one, gonna let it harden for 24 hours, then cut off about half an inch and see if I can't use a socket to get it out.

If that doesn't work I'll get the damn thing out one way or another and move along.. :P
;P

So go buy a new bigger set of screwdrivers from Sears, while on the way to get a new bolt.

Now that sounds like a great plan!:dancing:

tequilla November 12th, 2011 12:11 AM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dt113 (Post 525927)
So go buy a new bigger set of screwdrivers from Sears, while on the way to get a new bolt......

Don't forget to pick up the $30 extractor set when you get the screwdrivers..... :grin:




:funny: :funny: :funny:

Seriously do what it takes to get the bolt out....... then throw that fucker as far as you can so you aren't tempted to use it again and buy a new damn bolt :thumbsup:

rostigbug November 12th, 2011 04:37 AM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
TP here are a few tricks from an old timer...
put all the rest of the bolts back in & tighten 'em down real good. then loosten the stuck one.
Also a good hard smack with a 16 oz hammer helps a lot. hit the bolt on the head like it was a nail you are driving into a piece of wood.
This also smashes the mushroomed hexagonal hole back to size.
Do you have any Torx bits? I often get a torx bit that is a tiny too large & drive it in to the bolt head with a hammer then use it to loosten the bolt.

Iowa Mark November 12th, 2011 10:43 AM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Use profanity. Works for me.

Hapster November 12th, 2011 12:41 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
sit a washer in the slot you made, slip a small screw driver in the hole and use it as a lever, if the angle is wrong use an allen wrench with a right angle turn.

Be creative

then throw the bolt away

PANCHO November 12th, 2011 12:59 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichG (Post 525903)
Replace the bolt or face the very real possibility of having to go through this again someday... but with the added knowledge that you were too stubborn to do it right in the first place. Trust me, it's special feeling when you realize you just screwed yourself!



who am i? this sounds like the most reasonable person so far...

tattooed_pariah November 12th, 2011 03:51 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Just went out and peeked at it.. this may work out well... Apparently JB Weld does not adhere to craftsman allen wrenches, but the allen wrench worked as a reverse mold and the JB weld might give me something to grab with my allen wrench socket.. gonna give it a full 24 hours of curing, but it might actually work.. :P

I'm thinking I might just use one of the bolts from the cylinder cooling fins to replace this one. Two of the tins are held on with 4 bolts, I'm sure holding one on with 3 won't be that detrimental..

tattooed_pariah November 12th, 2011 04:56 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
Drilled the head off, all the JB Weld crumbled when I tried to use my socket..

I think all I have left to do now to get the engine out is removing the rear wheel and drive shaft, supporting the engine, removing the subframe, then pulling the engine :)

Then begins the process of tearing it apart, cleaning it all up and putting it in the new case..

Jon November 13th, 2011 03:24 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
JB weld doesnt really stick well to a painted or anodized surface. Even if it did it wouldn't hold up to the torque of trying to free the bolt.
I would drill grind cut.... until you got either a slot in it. The turn the bolt out.

spot welding a allen wrench into it might work to.

freightshaker November 13th, 2011 07:01 PM

Re: Cheap or Correct?
 
I've had really good luck with driving a torx bit into a rounded allen head bolt....Between the "teeth" a torx has and the tapping in, it seems to work for me...


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