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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #1
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Default Bonneville VW Challenge
Re:: get salt fever   

VW's are welcome at Bonneville

http://www.saltflats.com/36_HP.html

Burly Burlie just sent me this link, and hoped it would get passed around to Forums that would be interested.

BONNEVILLE ROCKS
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

I think everyone knows the difference, but the big "Speed Week" for Bonneville, sponsored by SCTA and BNI; is different than the USFRA who is sponsoring this category. The USFRA is where you can take your basically sound street car and drive in the 130 mph class. It is run at a different time than Speed Week.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 08:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

I think USFRA runs in September.
If the weather is good.

Speed Week is August,World Finals are October.

They also run the 36 hp challenge at Maxton,etc.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 12:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

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Originally Posted by Unkl Ian View Post
They also run the 36 hp challenge at Maxton,etc.


This is the last year for Maxton, but the ECTA
just signed a one year deal to hold 4 events in
Wilmington Ohio.

Hopefully that will turn into a multiyear deal.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 10:20 AM   #5
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Default New Big BLock ACVW Bonneville Classes (not 36hp!)

VW Land Speed Racers

Great news for folks with Volkswagen air cooled powered racers has just been announced by the SCTA/BNI ( go to http://www.scta-bni.org ). Their "Classic" category of race cars that was previously open only to American cars built between 1948 and 1981 has been opened to include "Foreign Cars", and that means our Volkswagen's. The benefit for VW racers that comes from this change is our 1930's designed air cooled engines will no longer have to compete head to head for official land speed records set by radical watercooled Asian and European dual over head cam modern technology engines, most records of which are in the 200 mph plus range!

NOTE: This "DOES NOT" affect the 36hp Challenge and 130 Mile Per Hour Club record keeping that I maintain!

The tough part, only race VW's built to the demanding SCTA/BNI Rulebook can compete for these records which means much greater expense and serious effort is required to move to this level of competition. Any racer who is racing or building a VW they expect to exceed 135 miles per hour should seriously consider following the SCTA/BNI Rulebook safety requirements for two reasons. First and foremost, is safety! Speeds in this range involve much more serious consequences should something go wrong and Bugs "without wings" are extremely unsafe at these speeds (Ghias are much more stable and therefore better! And have better "aero"!). Second, building to the SCTA/BNI specs will allow you to race on the long three mile tracks at both the USFRA World of Speed at Bonneville and SCTA/BNI Bonneville Speedweek giving you greater opportunities for higher speeds and now with this change, potentially, SCTA/BNI land speed records.

I cannot speak for the USFRA or SCTA/BNI sanctioning bodies regarding safety and rules and the below interpretations are a simple overview of how I understand the rules as written. Therefore, I would strongly encourage you to obtain a 2012 Rulebook as soon as possible if your VW racing aspirations are in the 135 mile per hour plus range for now or the near future. This will insure you have information directly from the horses mouth before starting construction or improvements to your Volkswagen land speed race car. Questions can be answered by Mike Manghelli, the SCTA's resident VW racer and also SCTA Rules Co-ordinator directly at
rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org .


General Classic guidelines:

ALTered: Stock body and fenders (chopped O.K. if pre 1948)( Fiberglass replacements, i.e., one piece front ends O.K. if "stock" proportions and shapes remain). Removal of bumpers and front lights and covering of grill(s) and front openings "is required"! O.K. for front air dam, engine hood scoop and rear wing ( like a Herrods Helper or drag style ) mounted in the trunk area. Engine "MUST" be swapped for a non-original engine such as a Type 2/4 engine in place of a 1600cc VW type engine or a 1600cc VW in place of a 36hp engine.Supercharged or turbocharged is O.K. as a B blown( G gas or F fuel )ALT entrant. Air cooled VW's must add a rear engine support under the case. No belly pans or other streamlining!

GC-Gas Coupe(or Sedan): Stock body and fenders (no chopping). Stock bumpers required. OK for front air dam and engine air scoops. Rear wing if production (Herrods Helpers are probably NOT legal!). Any engine. Supercharged or turbocharged is O.K. as a B blown GC entrant. Only minor body trim alterations permitted. No one piece front ends.

PROduction: Stock body. Stock bumpers required. No scoops or wings/spoilers (no Herrods Helper!). Engine original to "that body style". No supercharging or turbocharging however bigger and multiple carbs ( if they fit onto original intake manifold bolt pattern! ) and most other engine modifications are legal!

Engines: No electrical fuel injection. No sensor management system's with loop. No dual distributors or magnetos.


Letter definitions for classes as shown below:

F......engine size below 3000 cc's (1st F letter)

C.....Classic category(1948 to 1981 vehicle)

B.....Supercharged or turbocharged(Blown)

G.....Gasoline as fuel

F......All non gasoline fuels (2nd F letter)


Class Current Bonneville Record as of December 8th, 2011

F/CBFALT 129.641..........Hudson Boys Chevy 4/53 Stude 08/11

F/CFALT 165.224.........Cohn Chevy Monza 08/11

F/CBGALT 123.782.........Hudson Boys Chevy 4/53 Stude 08/11

F/CGALT 182.357.........Cohn Chevy Monza 08/11

F/CBGC 173.090.........Keosababian Chevy Corvair 08/74

F/CGC 174.922.........Cohn Chevy Monza 08/11

F/CPRO None-Open

data taken from current posted SCTA/BNI speed records as of 11/20/11.



Bob Stahls 65 Bug with a 2914cc fuel injected (not Turbo'ed!)Type 4 engine.

If a Bonneville class is "Open" with no existing record, like the F/CPRO class, you can enter that class with a car that meets the engine displacement requirements (0.0L to 3.0L) and body, technical and fuel requirements and "establish" the base record for that class until someone goes faster than you.

All SCTA/BNI land speed records are set using the "average" of two runs. First, you must qualify by going faster than the record at which time you car is placed in "Impound" overnite until the next days early morning record runs. You make your second pass early in the morning and the speed from this run is averaged with the speed from your earlier "qualifying" pass. If the combined two pass average speed is above the existing record, you have set a new SCTA/BNI land speed record.

Each SCTA/BNI qualifying run at Bonneville in the classes Volkswagen air cooled racers qualify for are made on a three mile track instead of the one mile track we run in the 130 Mile Per Hour Club events at USFRA's World of Speed so your engine must maintain this high speed for a substantially longer period of time(build accordingly). VW's can run either at the USFRA World of Speed in September on the longer competition track west of the 130 track and set SCTA/BNI recognized records or they can attend the August SCTA/BNI Speedweek and race for records on one of two 3 mile competition tracks set up for cars running up to 175 miles per hour. Two way average records set on either three mile track become SCTA/BNI certified records. All cars racing on these three mile tracks must meet SCTA/BNI safety and class guidelines as set forth in the SCTA/BNI Rulebook. Details and rulebooks are available at http://www.scta-bni.org . Order the "2012 Rulebook" to receive details on the new Classic classes allowing "foreign cars" into this 1948-1981 category.

In addition. if you are building, or contemplating building, an SCTA/BNI certified racer to go after this type of land speed record, contact the SCTA through their web-site and you can be assigned a personal individual SCTA member who will guide you over the phone to meet and exceed the safety definitions in the Rulebook. These SCTA member "guides" are invaluable in reducing problems during your tech and safety inspection when you first arrive. Upon passing your initial tech inspection, your car will be issued a SCTA/BNI Inspection record book that documents the history of your inspections for future guidance. If you have any questions, you can contact, Mike Manghelli, the SCTA's resident VW racer and also SCTA Rules Co-ordinator directly at rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org .

Racing a 1200 to 1500cc ( 1.5L ) or 1600 to 2000cc ( 2.0L ) Volkswagen? At present, the new Classic classes do not have records available in those engine sizes so you have to compete with engines up to 3000cc ( 3.0L ) in the F class . Classes G (1.51L to 2.0L ) and H (1.1L to 1.5L ) will only be added after 2012 "if" cars show up to race in those engine size categories. The SCTA/BNI needs to see interest before any smaller engine categories will be included in future events.

This is super news for VW folks serious about going the extra miles(s) in land speed racing for the long term.

May the Speed be with you..........................

Burly
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Old April 15th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #6
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Default Bellytanks and lakesters

Just received this artwork from Hank Young who operates a custom bike/hot rod/ VolksRod shop in Marietta, Georgia. He plans to finish construction on the lakester in time for a 2013 trip to Bonneville to run in the 36hp Challenge.




http://youngchoppers.com

The link above will let you see the sweet Volks Rod almost finished at his shop now.

Enjoy....................

Burly
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Old June 10th, 2012, 08:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bellytanks and lakesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36hplandspeedracer View Post
Just received this artwork from Hank Young who operates a custom bike/hot rod/ VolksRod shop in Marietta, Georgia. He plans to finish construction on the lakester in time for a 2013 trip to Bonneville to run in the 36hp Challenge.




http://youngchoppers.com

The link above will let you see the sweet Volks Rod almost finished at his shop now.

Enjoy....................

Burly
I'm just starting a LSR build with a 2000cc bus motor in a tube chassis 1969 HUMBUG Buggy Body with the hopes of going to bonneville in 2013 as well, I sure would like to get on a list or some sort of plan to try and arrange acaravan with other like mindedfolks going from this side of the world.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 08:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Burly's blue turbo Beetle is a beautiful car.



Last I remember, Tom Bruch owns the engine that's in it.
I was at the Oct. '05 meet at Maxton when Tom set the Super Stock record in his '57. That was the day he was using a Skippy peanut butter jar as an oil catch can.




This is the car Tom was running at the last ECTA meet:


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Old January 9th, 2008, 09:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

if you were to run a stock bodies car "production", could you run another motor? Say a VR6 or 1.8 turbo?
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Old January 10th, 2008, 08:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

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if you were to run a stock bodies car "production", could you run another motor? Say a VR6 or 1.8 turbo?


Depends on the class.
Some classes allow engine swaps.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 11:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Looks like all classes have to run stock VW heads (valve changes and other head work looks OK in some classes) with 36 horse valve covers. So, I'd say no.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Great stuff, can't wait to see the results.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 05:24 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

I know it would be sacrilege to some to use a 36hp based engine in a curved windshield Super but I wonder if its better aerodynamics would be enough offset its higher weight?

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Old September 10th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Hi Scott

Could you please contact me about the great photo you have of Deanos El Mirage Super Beetle. I maintain a history of VW's that have been involved in land speed racing and have no photos of Deans Super to utilize for the historical record.

Thanx

Burly @ burlybug@comcast.net
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Old September 10th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Hey Burly, I talked to Tom for quite a long spell tonight. And after passing a few things along to the others involved in this venture, we have decided to hold off on the Ghia and go ahead with a bug to compete in the 36Hp challenge as a NA36. Have fun on the salt.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

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I know it would be sacrilege to some to use a 36hp based engine in a curved windshield Super but I wonder if its better aerodynamics would be enough offset its higher weight?

Dean had a 2.9 VW liter engine and a 911 5 speed in it when he built it. This picture is from when it was just finished.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Weight is a funny issue. For Maxton or USFRA, you basically have to accelerate for one mile and then shut down. So like a drag race, less weight can be beneficial, assuming you do not need weight for traction. But for Speed Week, you have three miles (for the slower <175 mph cars) to get up to speed. Most guys even add weight to cars, or certainly do not try and keep it deliberately light. The extra weight helps stability and traction. The salt is hard, but not real high traction. Kind of crumbly on the surface and people have described it as driving fast on snow.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Like Unk said, different classes allow different mods. The issue with an AC/VW is keeping the engine cool enough while producing the Hp to over come the aero drag in order to reach speeds in excess of 150-200 mph. The amount of dirty air hitting the rear fenders creates a big challenge with the CP also. This will make the car unstable at high speeds also. There is a lot more to land speed racing than just building a fast engine.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Let me expand on my last post a bit. I'm not saying that a VW can not compete on the salt. They can and do. But if you want to really built a Vw that will shake the salt, a bug is not the best way to go. You will do a lot better with a type 3 or a Ghia. But you still have the problem of most of the weight being in the rear of the vehicle. This will make the front end unstable. Think of an arrow. The head is heavy, the shaft is long, and the tail has "fins". These are what make an arrow go straight.

So, applying this to a VW.... Mount the engine in the front (moving the CG forward), choose a body that is long and even (top to bottom), and add in spill plates. This will get you pointed in the right direction and help keep you in that direction.

And for the record, yes I have a lot of time invested in this very subject. And yes there is a LSR build going on around these parts. That's all that I'm going to say on that subject though.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

The 36hp Challenge is for Beetles only.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 05:10 PM   #21
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Ghias and buses ( and pick-ups ) are all welcome in the 36hp Challenge, along with beetles as of 2009. Go to www.burlyb.com for current info and all 36hp speed records. Also check out the August 09 issue of Hot VW's for photos and details.

May the Speed be with you.............

Burly
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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

True. But are we talking about only running in the 36hp Challange or VWs on the salt period?
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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

This particular thread is about the 36hp Challenge.

Most official LRS classes aren't by make/manufacturer anyway but by body style and engine size.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:57 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

Also true.


In that case, the basic rules are listed above in the link, so there for ignore all that I said.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: Bonneville VW Challenge

as previously mentioned in other thread about the 36hp challenge, im making the journey over from ireland to team up with roadcow, we are currently building a 58 ragtop sedan called "lucky charm" which i will race at bonneville in 2009


cheers
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