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Old October 29th, 2016, 08:36 PM   #1
tattooed_pariah
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Default Compression Testing

So a couple of months ago, I ordered this kit from amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had a shop tell me that #3 had no compression, but when they pulled the head (without pulling the engine.. ), they didn't see any valve damage or anything that would cause the compression loss, so they put it back together and it was fine..

Since then, I haven't driven the car much because the few times i have started it up and tried to go around the block, it's running like shit.. the last time, I didn't think I was even going to make it home, it felt like i was running on half an engine.. so I suspected that by reinstalling the head without pulling the engine, they didn't torque anything down properly and now I probably have no compression on the 3/4 side..

After getting the kit, i pulled all four plugs, and tried my damndest to get this kit to screw in, but it wouldn't go.

I put a mic on the plugs (NGK DPR6E) and I didn't write any numbers down, but it would seem that the 12mm adapter is far too small, and the 14mm adapter is far too big..

has anyone else come across this?

I've been meaning to just pull the engine and check it all over correctly, but life has gotten in the way..
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Old October 29th, 2016, 11:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Compression Testing

Have you thought about knocking out the centre of an old plug and threading it as an adapter?

It's something you might be able to do. Assuming your not like me and actually have access to a tap that would work.

Edit: how the hell does one pull the head without pulling the engine?! I forgot what the rear end of your car looked like but it must be quite open? But even then they should have been able to torque it down.
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Old October 31st, 2016, 03:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Compression Testing

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Originally Posted by DrHax View Post
Have you thought about knocking out the centre of an old plug and threading it as an adapter?

It's something you might be able to do. Assuming your not like me and actually have access to a tap that would work.

Edit: how the hell does one pull the head without pulling the engine?! I forgot what the rear end of your car looked like but it must be quite open? But even then they should have been able to torque it down.
Never seen the spark plug method, not sure if I have a tap that would do it..

I still have rear fenders and body metal.. The only way I can think of that he would have been able to pull a head without pulling the engine would have been to remove the alternator, alternator stand, intake and carb, fan shroud, cylinder head tin on that side, and then pull the head... seems like at least 50% more work than just dropping the engine..

but he claimed to have pulled a head and reinstalled it.. it bugged me but I didn't argue it because I'm retarded..
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Old October 31st, 2016, 06:14 PM   #4
Unkl Ian
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Default Re: Compression Testing

Measure the thread on the plug, compare.
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Old November 1st, 2016, 10:15 AM   #5
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Should be 14mm, from my memory
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Old November 1st, 2016, 02:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Compression Testing

The DPR6E's are 12mm 3/4" reach.. When I hit it with my calipers, it seems like the "12mm" adapter is too small and the "14mm" one if too big..
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Old November 1st, 2016, 05:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Compression Testing

12mm = .480"
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Old November 2nd, 2016, 04:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Compression Testing

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Originally Posted by tattooed_pariah View Post
The DPR6E's are 12mm 3/4" reach.. When I hit it with my calipers, it seems like the "12mm" adapter is too small and the "14mm" one if too big..
LOL... Sorry... I fell off in my Briggs Stuff for the size on that... almost everything I've dealt with in Briggs has been a 14 for years... I do it so often I was actually guessing at the size. Went out and pulled a plug from my "bench" engine and it's a 12mm... Sorry for the Bullshit input.
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Old November 2nd, 2016, 05:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Compression Testing

Did you check to make sure the threads aren't damaged on the compression tester?? I've had a few new plugs that wouldn't start, upon closer examination the first few threads on the plug were messed up
Another thought, did the head possibly have a helicoil in it? I've had one come out & stay on the plug before, lucky for me the plug went back in, the next tune up I installed a new helicoil, just a thought

After checking the diameter check the threads to be sure they have the same pitch, a friend of mine bought a Ghia that came from California, I forget the company that built the engine, but they have their own heads that have 12mm plugs

I've pulled one head off a full bodied Bug back in 1986 to replace the #3 piston & cylinder, I was able to torque everything back down, it wasn't easy, but then again, it wasn't all that tough either, I may be doing that here soon to replace the push rod tubes, I don't wanna hafta pull the engine out again


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Old November 2nd, 2016, 11:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Compression Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTRODS View Post
LOL... Sorry... I fell off in my Briggs Stuff for the size on that... almost everything I've dealt with in Briggs has been a 14 for years... I do it so often I was actually guessing at the size. Went out and pulled a plug from my "bench" engine and it's a 12mm... Sorry for the Bullshit input.
haha no worries

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Originally Posted by metalmaster1766 View Post
Did you check to make sure the threads aren't damaged on the compression tester?? I've had a few new plugs that wouldn't start, upon closer examination the first few threads on the plug were messed up
Another thought, did the head possibly have a helicoil in it? I've had one come out & stay on the plug before, lucky for me the plug went back in, the next tune up I installed a new helicoil, just a thought

After checking the diameter check the threads to be sure they have the same pitch, a friend of mine bought a Ghia that came from California, I forget the company that built the engine, but they have their own heads that have 12mm plugs

I've pulled one head off a full bodied Bug back in 1986 to replace the #3 piston & cylinder, I was able to torque everything back down, it wasn't easy, but then again, it wasn't all that tough either, I may be doing that here soon to replace the push rod tubes, I don't wanna hafta pull the engine out again


Ron
The compression tester adapters are in good shape, it's a brand new kit and they look fine..

The heads were bought brand new a few years ago from Brother's Machine.. no helicoils.

I might check thread pitch, I hadn't thought of that..

I think the "right" way to do this, would be to yank the engine and verify the torque.. cause I had no compression on #3 and now it feels like I'm running on half an engine, so I'm thinking it wasn't torqued properly and now I have no compression on #3 and 4... :/

just dreading yanking the engine.. it's not difficult, just a pain in the ass. haha
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Old November 2nd, 2016, 05:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Compression Testing

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Originally Posted by whozawhat View Post
no compression in a cylinder could be the valves set too tight.
I'm running chromoly pushrods so I always bring em in so they just touch, but I can still rotate them with my fingertips.. basically "loose zero"
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Old November 2nd, 2016, 07:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Compression Testing

That's funny, that's how I set the valves on my '83 Iron Sportster.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 08:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Compression Testing

a noisy valve is a happy valve
If you ever measure that "loose zero" with a feeler gauge you would be suprised how small it is.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 05:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: Compression Testing

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Originally Posted by tattooed_pariah View Post
I'm running chromoly pushrods so I always bring em in so they just touch, but I can still rotate them with my fingertips.. basically "loose zero"
Loose Zero, so does that have anything to do with the chromoly pushrods ?? I have no idea since I've never used anything but stock parts


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Old November 15th, 2016, 10:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: Compression Testing

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Originally Posted by rostigbug View Post
a noisy valve is a happy valve
If you ever measure that "loose zero" with a feeler gauge you would be suprised how small it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmaster1766 View Post
Loose Zero, so does that have anything to do with the chromoly pushrods ?? I have no idea since I've never used anything but stock parts


Ron
Stock pushrods will expand just like the the rest of the engine, chromoly ones won't. You set .06 with stock so when they expand, they close the gap (they expand a tiny bit more than the engine). With chromoly you set a loose zero so that after expansion, it has a little bit of a gap..

At least that is how it was always explained to me and how I've always read it..
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Old November 24th, 2016, 06:40 AM   #16
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Default Re: Compression Testing

I learned something new today, imagine that

IF I ever get around to building a bigger & higher HP engine using chromoly pushrods I'll know how to adjust the valves, Thank ya


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Old December 14th, 2016, 07:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Compression Testing

Been procrastinating on working on the bug because it's been chilly, the kids car needed work, i have no extra cash, whatever.. been making excuses..

Getting itchy to do some work, so I'm thinking I want to pull the engine, check valves, check compression, pull cylinder heads and remeasure cylinder cc's, deck height, and compression, clean carbs, and put it back together..

I need a sanity check on one part though:

If I want to spin the engine on the stand, just for compression check purposes, not for running, you guys think i'll be alright doing the following:

- connect oil pump outlet to inlet, creating a loop to eliminate the external cooler/filter temporarily.
- connect battery positive to starter
- connect battery negative to engine stand for grounding? where the hell do i ground the battery while the engine is on a stand?
- use remote starter switch to power starter to spin motor

Since I'm not trying to run the engine, i just need to build compression, I'm thinking so long as the oil system is complete it shouldn't cause any lubrication problems. :


(I have a piece of a trans case to mount the starter while on the stand..)
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Old December 14th, 2016, 03:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Compression Testing

Your oil loop will be fine. I would run the ground from the engine or trans to the battery and not the stand and the positive from the battery to the starter. Using a remote starter button to turn it over for checking the compression is the way to go.
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Old December 14th, 2016, 04:32 PM   #19
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Your oil loop will be fine. I would run the ground from the engine or trans to the battery and not the stand and the positive from the battery to the starter. Using a remote starter button to turn it over for checking the compression is the way to go.
yup, got to use the starter button on the kid's Z when it had issues a few weeks ago.. fun little gadget.. :)

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bolt your ground to that chunk of transmission that you will use to attach the starter, don't power up the ignition circuit, and disconnect the coil lead just in case you still have some fuel in the carbs, everything else is fine.

I'll have all the plugs out and wires removed just to have them out of the way. and without a connection to the 6AL box, the ignition should never get a signal to fire anyway.. plus i'll crank it over in the car without the fuel pump running anyway just to limit fuel spills when i disconnect the carbs..



thanks guys!
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