Cut-Weld-Drive Forums

Go Back   Cut-Weld-Drive Forums > The VolksRodders Forum > The Cutting Board

The Cutting Board Cut... Weld... DRIVE.


User Information
Your Avatar

Stuff to check out...

Cool stuff you NEED!

Forum Stats
Members: 17,732
Threads: 32,307
Posts: 545,901
Total Online: 1817

Newest Member: OliverP

Latest Threads
- by Zee
- by horshak

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 29th, 2010, 08:26 PM   #1
Dbug41
Forum Member
 
Dbug41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ogden Utah
Posts: 1,070
Member Photo Albums
Default BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101
Re:: ask your Questions here! so everyone can learn   

Newbies Ask your Qestions here




Well the title says it all
I would like to call on all the Veteran Volksrodders out there to assist me in answering the many and wide variety of questions out there
The new people coming in Volksrodding are deserving of our knowledge and this will help keep the other threads clean as well when it gets moved to the tech bin

so newbies please ask away

and guys...um please play nice

Read this thread

Beam Extender Install Walkthrough

http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29832

and this one too

How to build a volksrod..OFFICIAL NEWBIE GUIDE!!!

http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5617
__________________
Contact me at this link -> doug.thevrshop@gmail.com <-
BEAM EXTENDERS 101 THE BASICS
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29555
Give me a like on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-V...59432887438851
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't make it "idiot proof" the universe will just make a better idiot and send them my way
life is short make fun of it!

Last edited by Dbug41; February 26th, 2010 at 07:23 PM.
Dbug41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #2
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 17,010
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Lets start with the obvious:
#1 click on the link and read everything. Twice.
http://www.volksrods.com/beamextensions.htm
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 10:38 AM   #3
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 17,010
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Site says:

"**Mounting & steering shaft extension hardware NOT included.***"

Question: Exactly what hardware is required, and who sells it ?









__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net


Last edited by Unkl Ian; January 30th, 2010 at 01:51 PM.
Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #4
Dbug41
Forum Member
 
Dbug41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ogden Utah
Posts: 1,070
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

the hardware required to mount the beam extender depends on how your going to do it.
I would drill out the threads in the frame head and double nut it with thick washers on the back side






shaft4.jpg

This is the way Tequila did his and it works pretty well
he also extended the steering shaft


Palepainter did it this way
1. (4) 4 in 1/2 inch grade 8 bolts.
2. (8) Thick grade 8 washers.
3. (4) Split lock washers.
4. (4) Grade 8 nuts.
5. You will reuse the stock bolts that mount the beam to the frame head. Use these bolts to attach the extender.



shaft2.jpg

shaft3.jpg

as you can see there are many ways to do this
check these guys out they have everything you need

http://www.berrienbuggy.com/id121.htm

system_pg26.jpgUJnt_phasngsmall-.jpg

http://www.appletreeauto.com/u-joints-c-85.html

you can pick up the hardware at any nut and bolt supplier, I recommend grade 8 and locking fasteners
__________________
Contact me at this link -> doug.thevrshop@gmail.com <-
BEAM EXTENDERS 101 THE BASICS
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29555
Give me a like on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-V...59432887438851
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't make it "idiot proof" the universe will just make a better idiot and send them my way
life is short make fun of it!

Last edited by Dbug41; February 15th, 2010 at 09:51 PM.
Dbug41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 03:14 PM   #5
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 17,010
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbug41 View Post
...and double nut it ...

Personal preference, I would rather use
Nyloc nuts where ever possible.
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 04:20 PM   #6
zuez
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: os TN
Posts: 128
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Ok, heres the questions,

1. On the 10" ball joint / ball joint - 2 1/2" drop, corrected for castor. Would I need to cut a notch in the hood/trunk/lid up front?

2. And would drop spindles, put the frontend dragging the ground?

3. Do you make a reverse hood hinge that mounts to the beam extender.
zuez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #7
Dbug41
Forum Member
 
Dbug41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ogden Utah
Posts: 1,070
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuez View Post
Ok, heres the questions,

1. On the 10" ball joint / ball joint - 2 1/2" drop, corrected for castor. Would I need to cut a notch in the hood/trunk/lid up front?

2. And would drop spindles, put the frontend dragging the ground?

3. Do you make a reverse hood hinge that mounts to the beam extender.
1. yes, unless you go center steer or rack and pinon
2. no if you use stock sized tires
3. no i do not and i don't plan on it
__________________
Contact me at this link -> doug.thevrshop@gmail.com <-
BEAM EXTENDERS 101 THE BASICS
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29555
Give me a like on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-V...59432887438851
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't make it "idiot proof" the universe will just make a better idiot and send them my way
life is short make fun of it!
Dbug41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #8
PureC4
Forum Member
 
PureC4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 1,265
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuez View Post
Ok, heres the questions,

1. On the 10" ball joint / ball joint - 2 1/2" drop, corrected for castor. Would I need to cut a notch in the hood/trunk/lid up front?

2. And would drop spindles, put the frontend dragging the ground?

3. Do you make a reverse hood hinge that mounts to the beam extender.
Answer to
#3
Tilting the hood foreword is easy. I had some 1/4 plate from pieces of my original straight axle set up. Hard part was for a beginner welder to weld plate to sheet metal hood. Used a couple of grade 8 bolts. drilled a couple of holes in the beam uprights and done............. after a bunch of work fixing the burn through and warping of the hood!. But on the good side I don't hit my head any more working on stuff... like wiring or putting gas in! Oh, and did I say I love Dbug's 10" extender.......
__________________
It's life, and you just got to play the Game.

We lust for what we want, and weep for what we need!
PureC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 06:16 PM   #9
tequilla
Forum Member
 
tequilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Layin' low........ sippin' slow
Posts: 2,259
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkl Ian View Post
Personal preference, I would rather use
Nyloc nuts where ever possible.

I went the double nut route only because I purchased grade 8 bolts, washers and nuts. Although a standard nyloc nut after a grade 8 nut would be good. Do they make Nyloc nuts in grade 8?
__________________
VW INC.

'67 Baja

'63 T-Bird

Devils Plaything

Share your cheese....... here kitty, kitty.......
tequilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #10
dt113
Forum Member
 
dt113's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: W Monroe,La. 71291
Posts: 2,013
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by tequilla View Post
I went the double nut route only because I purchased grade 8 bolts, washers and nuts. Although a standard nyloc nut after a grade 8 nut would be good. Do they make Nyloc nuts in grade 8?
I tapped the threads all the way thru, and used double nuts. I also added red loc-tite to everything.

My 2 cents
dt113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 06:36 PM   #11
ssleeper
Forum Member
 
ssleeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bozeman Montana
Posts: 20
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

I noticed it your picture of the mounted extender that there is a brake master cylinder with a resivour on top. What is that from and will it fit on my 63?
Also I plan on using 1/4 plate for this extender, is that too thick? I don't mind adding some weight to the front end.
If you extend more than 8 inches to you need to add more than 8 degrees of caster to the front end? I want to extend the front end initially 10 inches on my first version but may want to go 12 inches. Do you need to add a degree of caster per inch of stretch?
__________________
63 Ragtop Baja
Think Slow Drive Fast.
It's not the size of the shop it's what you do with the tools inside.

.
ssleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 06:53 PM   #12
Dbug41
Forum Member
 
Dbug41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ogden Utah
Posts: 1,070
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssleeper View Post
1. I noticed it your picture of the mounted extender that there is a brake master cylinder with a resivour on top. What is that from and will it fit on my 63?

2. Also I plan on using 1/4 plate for this extender, is that too thick?
I don't mind adding some weight to the front end.
3. If you extend more than 8 inches to you need to add more than 8 degrees of caster to the front end? I want to extend the front end initially 10 inches on my first version but may want to go 12 inches. Do you need to add a degree of caster per inch of stretch?
1. Thats tequila's build ask him
2. no thats what I use
3. its all about the rake and the stance you want to run the higher the rear in relationship to the front, the more caster you will need, if you want to run it Gasser style the less caster you will need
__________________
Contact me at this link -> doug.thevrshop@gmail.com <-
BEAM EXTENDERS 101 THE BASICS
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29555
Give me a like on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-V...59432887438851
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't make it "idiot proof" the universe will just make a better idiot and send them my way
life is short make fun of it!
Dbug41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 06:59 PM   #13
bugdust
Forum Member
 
bugdust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Middleburg, FL USA
Posts: 8,808
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

I used 6mm (1/4") plate for the last extension I built, too.
__________________
my photobucket page

Quote:
No pics, but oh well, if you really, really need to see metal removed, turn off your computer and work on your car... ~ Ray-Dean
bugdust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 07:12 PM   #14
ssleeper
Forum Member
 
ssleeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bozeman Montana
Posts: 20
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Yes I want a combo of the gasser long wheelbase and the hot rod look. I am thinking of adding an old short tractor style grill like off an old ford 8N or something.
__________________
63 Ragtop Baja
Think Slow Drive Fast.
It's not the size of the shop it's what you do with the tools inside.

.
ssleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 02:14 PM   #15
penono2
Forum Member
 
penono2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: wilmington, NC
Posts: 28
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Im a little confused on the options offered. ie bj/bj bj/lp etc. it that referring to the type front end its mounting to? or tie rods? is one way better than another? for example i have a 1974 standard, plan on replacing with an adjustable front end and 10" extender. by the looks of it they all mount the same or am i missing something. being that im basically starting from scratch i wanna make sure i continue to move in the right direction, as i dont have the money to be ordering incorrectly! im am a newbie with volks so the more info the better. thanks in advanced!
penono2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #16
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 17,010
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Someone will know what years were what

BJ= Ball Joint
LP = Link Pin

The spacing on the tubes is different, so you can't bolt a bj beam onto a lp pan.
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 03:00 PM   #17
bugdust
Forum Member
 
bugdust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Middleburg, FL USA
Posts: 8,808
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

bug was l/p through 65, b/j 66 and up
__________________
my photobucket page

Quote:
No pics, but oh well, if you really, really need to see metal removed, turn off your computer and work on your car... ~ Ray-Dean
bugdust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 03:11 PM   #18
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 17,010
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Link Pin was preferred by the Baja guys, because it allowed more wheel travel.
Some people prefer the look of the Link Pin shock towers.

Both work basically the same.
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #19
Al Low Ha
Forum Member
 
Al Low Ha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 999
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

I'd totally agree with Uncle's statement, "Some people prefer the look of the Link Pin shock towers"....you betcha!

Link pin suspension was favored by us old offroads because it was much sturdier than the ball joint version! Stock ball joints themselves would fail under the strain of offroading. The boots would rip and before long 'blamo' apart comes the ball joint and race over!

Kinda the same when lowering the frontend excessivly....(even with lowering ball joints). The ball joints just don't hold as well as the good ol' king/link pin suspensions.

I just installed my 8" extender today...My tips would be to: 1st disco the battery,drain and remove the gas tank. Disco to steering column and remove the shaft for later. Then only unbolt the body from the pan(Loosen the 2 rear shock tower bolts to the max-remove the rest.)...do not remove it completely. Jack up the front of the body till you have enough clearance Clarence to roll the front beam out(leave the tires/rims on!). Bolt up the extender and lower the body down to see exactly where you want to chop/hack/grind/torch/cut the inner quarter panels and spare tire well. Mark it and raise it back up & start cutting. Once you have enough removed (you think) roll your beam back in and loosely bolt it to your extender to see what more you want to cut away.. AND remember to allow enough clearance for your tie rods when the suspension is bottomed out! Took me less than 30 mins. Still have to deal with brake lines and the steering shaft mods..
Aloha

Last edited by Al Low Ha; January 30th, 2010 at 04:57 PM.
Al Low Ha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #20
AirheadZim
Forum Member
 
AirheadZim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 2,596
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Now we're talking!!! The previous posts to this thread hellp me SO much. Ended some of the mystery of the build. Good to know we can use common hardware for at least bolting the extender up to our current frame head. The nyloc idea of Unk's seems like a good one to me. A trip to Lowes should solve that problem. The more I read, the more I want to do this to my T1/T4. As I said in a previous post, If a VR brother in FL wants to make a few extra $$ on a weekend and you have a small portable welder and skillz to help an ol' pegleg VR do this in a couple in months, please contact me.

Zim
AirheadZim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 06:40 PM   #21
bigguy
Forum Member
 
bigguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: upstate ny
Posts: 6,959
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

volvo 240 i believe reservoir but i am sure i will be corrected if i am wrong.
__________________
Playing the hurry up and wait game of life.
bigguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2010, 11:20 AM   #22
Al Low Ha
Forum Member
 
Al Low Ha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 999
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

AND a big Mahalo to you Doug for providing the shaft and mods! My plan is to install the steering shaft this weekend! It's gonna be rough going cause I threw out my back Monday...but I'm itching to get the 56 'steerable'....Thanks again!
Aloha
Al Low Ha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2010, 07:37 PM   #23
howirolla
Forum Member
 
howirolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 201
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Ok so my question is if the caster angle wasent compensated for on the longer extensions what sort of effects will it have other than heavier steering?
howirolla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2010, 07:41 PM   #24
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 17,010
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

The compensation adds more caster, so you don't need the caster shims commonly used with lowered beams.
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2010, 08:18 PM   #25
Dbug41
Forum Member
 
Dbug41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ogden Utah
Posts: 1,070
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: BEAM EXTENDER "FAQ" THE BASICS 101

Caster


Caster is the angle between the steering axis and the vertical axis as viewed from the side of the car. Caster affects straight-line stability and "camber gain". Positive caster is when the top of the steering axis is tilted back (steering axis intersects the ground in front of the tire contact patch). Negative caster is when the top of the steering axis is tilted forward (steering axis intersects the ground behind the tire contact patch). I have never seen negative caster used, and I do not believe it is beneficial in automobile suspension geometry. Therefore, for the rest of this section, when I refer to caster, I am talking about positive caster.


To visualize caster, think about the wheels of a shopping cart. The steering axis of the wheel intersects the ground far ahead of where the wheel touches the ground. As a result, the wheel is essentially dragged behind the steering axis. This keeps the wheel moving straight. If the steering axis intersected the ground at the same spot that the wheel touched the ground, then there would be no caster effect. The wheel would be free to spin around the steering axis as long as it was not held in place by some other force.
Unlike in a shopping cart, the steering axis on a car is placed close to the hub of the wheel. Therefore, the only way to make the steering axis intersect the ground ahead of the tire contact patch is to tilt the steering axis. The more the axis is tilted (in the positive caster direction), the greater the caster effect.
Example of Positive Caster (Side View)
Enlarge
Large caster settings increase the tendency of the front wheels to center themselves. This tendency is mainly due to the camber gain that occurs when the steering axis is tilted and the wheels are turned. Camber gain involved with caster is not easy to visualize. Think about the extreme case where the steering axis is tilted to the point where it is horizontal. When you turn the steering wheel, the front wheels would stand up on their edges. If you turn left, the left tire will stand on its outer edge, and the right tire will stand on its inner edge. If you turn right, the left tire will stand on its inner edge the right on its outer edge. The same type of camber gain, only on a smaller scale, takes place with less caster. This camber gain is exactly what you want in a corner. Read the previous section on camber to see what it is and why itís beneficial.
When the tires stand up on their edges, the front of the car is actually raised up. This is why the wheels "center themselves" when you let go of the steering wheel. The weight of the car pushes the wheels flat on the ground, which resets the steering. This improves high-speed stability because it keeps the steering firmly in the center position. However, it is difficult to turn a car with a large caster setting because, while turning, you are actually lifting the front of the car with the steering. This effect is most visible in luxury sedans, where high-speed stability is important and sophisticated power steering makes up for the extra steering effort. If you watch one of these cars as the wheels turn to full lock (maximum steering angle), you will see the front end of the car rise slightly.
Increased caster is advantageous for racing and, in some cases, street driving. The only disadvantage is the added steering effort. While camber gain due to caster is generally good for increasing the grip of the front tires in a corner, too much camber gain will cause the tires to heat up, lose grip, and wear out prematurely. Therefore, do not use more than a few degrees of caster. If your car uses a MacPherson Strut suspension, it may be necessary to modify or install new strut tower mounts to be able to adjust caster.

that should about cover it
__________________
Contact me at this link -> doug.thevrshop@gmail.com <-
BEAM EXTENDERS 101 THE BASICS
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29555
Give me a like on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-V...59432887438851
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't make it "idiot proof" the universe will just make a better idiot and send them my way
life is short make fun of it!
Dbug41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ALL text, images, graphics and content herein are Copyright ©2002 - 2013 Three Pugs Design - Cut Weld Drive Forums