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Old March 27th, 2005, 07:32 PM   #1
Nick
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Here's a newbie painting question, I'm a little confused. Which type of primer is best to use for which type/stage of project? Self-etching, high build, epoxy, enamel, urethane, surfacer, etc??

-From what I think I picked up, 2 part epoxy is the hardest and most durable?
-High build is great for filling in imperfections in the body work?
-Self etching is more for in between coats for better adhesion??

Epoxy, urethane, poly urethane and enamel are types of materials/chemicals the primers are made of and high-build, self etching, surfacer, etc are different types of primers, right?
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Old March 27th, 2005, 08:09 PM   #2
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All the good Shit is 2 part these days,and the fumes will kill you.
Once Isocyanates get in your system,they can't get out. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]

Self etching Primer contains some sort of mild acid,so it will bite into bare metal.Intended for industrial applications with new steel.Not necessary if you panels have been sand blaster or ground manually.

Most primers are pourous,they will let moisture through.
Epoxy Sealer is waterproof,it won't let moisture in.
Also prevents strange chemical reactions between fillers and paint.

High Build is like spray on putty,that sets up real quick.

You can post questions here:Yahoo Autobody Resto Group
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Old March 28th, 2005, 07:22 AM   #3
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Heres the sequence you want to use for the best quality job if you go all the way down to bare metal:

<span style="color:red">Self etching primer</span> <span style="color:blue">(will let water through)</span>
<span style="color:red">Epoxy primer-2 coats min</span> (PPG's DP-40 or equivalent) <span style="color:blue">(will not let water through)</span><span style="color:red">
Bondo </span> <span style="color:blue">(will soak up water like a sponge!)</span>
<span style="color:red">Urethane High build primer/surfacer </span>(PPG's K-36) <span style="color:blue">(will not let water through)</span>
<span style="color:red">Sealer </span> (kinda optional)
<span style="color:red">Paint</span>
<span style="color:red">Clearcoat</span>

You cant use self etching primer if you have sandblasted, the acid will eat up the metal. dont know why, its something going on at the molecular level, just dont do it. Same thing goes for metal conditioners. Skip the self etching step and just go straight to epoxy primer

Bondo can be applied on bare metal or on top of epoxy primer, this depends on the body mans personal opinon.

Like Ian said, icocyanates will kill you. wear a paint approved respirator at the very least, but for guaranteed protection you need a supplied air mask or hood. Icocyanates get in your body mostly through your lungs, but also your eyes and skin so wear protection!

Hope this helps!

one more thing- Polyester high build primer, which is basically liquid bondo, is great if you have deep sanding scratches and need a super high build primer/surfacer. Its also a lot cheaper than urethane. Theres feather fill and I think another thats called omni prime. you can substitute a polyester primer/surfacer instead of the urethane in the list, but poly. will NOT keep water out, treat is as bondo.
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Old March 28th, 2005, 11:17 AM   #4
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I've used DP (primer/sealer) over bare metal and scuffed up old finishes since 1992 and it always stuck and sealed as advertised.

The only thing I've used self-etching primer on (and I don't know it was necessary then) was when painting stainless or chrome trim.

Other than that, I agree with busguy71's list - if you have to have a clearcoat, that is. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif[/img]
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Old March 28th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #5
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How about rustoleum automotive primer (ala rattle can) and rustoleum satin enamals? I hear thats what boyd is using on all his stuff, he got the idea from me.
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Old March 28th, 2005, 01:21 PM   #6
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Excellent info guys [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif[/img] Makes things alot clearer now. Will add this to the lazh thread.
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Old March 28th, 2005, 09:09 PM   #7
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I'm interested in the spray can rustoleum as well...mostly because I'm cheap...
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Old March 29th, 2005, 02:37 AM   #8
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If you want to go somewhat cheap and keep a very high quality theres a lot of new water based paints coming out. AutoAirColors.com is a division of Createx and they have an excellent line of automotive waterborne products available. I was looking at the price guide and a gallon of some color was like $125. compare that to any urethane paint and you'd likely spend twice as much. I've been meaning to go pick up a chip sample book, they have all the harlequins, neons, huge metal flake and everything. Also, no VOC's in the paint. They dont have a clearcoat out yet but I hear they've been working on one....
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Old March 29th, 2005, 05:00 PM   #9
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rustoleum also has water base paints. the line is called 'american accents' this is what i painted my 58 with. just strain it before you shoot it
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Old March 29th, 2005, 07:06 PM   #10
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I always strain it before I shoot it, must be getting old [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]
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Old May 14th, 2005, 08:01 PM   #11
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Has anyone tried MasterSeries, and if so, what are your thoughts? I coated my Ghia with it after stripping it to bare metal. This was rolled on with a roller for "ultra flat" walls. (Sorry for the hi-res)
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Old September 27th, 2005, 08:57 PM   #12
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will PPG DP90 urethane primer . be ok for a final coat.

i was this color

and dicided that is wha t i want to paint.


i want to use a realy high build primer and sand it again before i spray this though. what is a resonably priced stuff i should look for.

i know the dp90 is about 120 for like 3 sprayable courts (sp) s i would like to find some reasonably priced high build primer
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Old September 27th, 2005, 08:58 PM   #13
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also what should i do as far as safty and ventalation . i dont really want to die
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Old September 28th, 2005, 07:54 AM   #14
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are is there anything that looks like the dp 90 that is a little cheaper that i should look for??..


any opinions or advice on this


thanx carson
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Old September 28th, 2005, 04:22 PM   #15
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I have tried master series.
Yes, it adheres really well.
Longevity is ? I have not had it on long enough to find out.
Durability is incredible.
Shelf life once opened is very short. even if you degass it it will harden up quickly.

Overall I am impressed with the stuff and believe it will do what it says. However I did have one problem. I did a test to see if Bondo will stick to it and it didn't. I mentioned to someone here and they said that I needed to scuff itwith like 220 or so. Makes sense and it does work that way.

It brushes on terrible though as its quite thick and drys really fast. Do not try and get a nice finish by brushing. You can sand it afterwards and thet should work out.

I have not used it on anything extrerior although part of me thinks I should have on some spots.

By the way, at work We switched from Dupont's Imron and Corlar systems to a Mathews system due to the price. Have found no difference in the quality of the product but the price is alot better. Now thats tough stuff.
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Old September 28th, 2005, 06:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by bugdust@Mar 30 2005, 02:06 PM
I always strain it before I shoot it, must be getting old


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