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Old October 9th, 2004, 06:35 PM   #1
FlatBlacker
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There’s been talk of creating a front engine air-cooled Volksrod but no one has been able to figure it out right? Well, I think I may of got it. What you would use is the bell housing off a late model bus, the housing comes off with the removal of about ten ½" nuts once the bell housing is off you have the 10 studs sticking out and what better than to use a 1/4" to ½" piece of steel and make a bracket to adapt a Chevy transmission (Similar to the one used in a Corvette) The end of the shaft on the Chevy trans fits amazingly well into the rear of the VW Engine. I figure if you can engineer the bracket you could use the stock VW pressure plate and flywheel along with the original throw out bearing and mechanism. Here’s some photo shops of the idea.

Top Left

The red squares outline were the bell housing separate’s from the main part of the transmission

Top Right

The blue represents where the steel plate would be mounted

Bottom Left

Red is suppose to be the Chevy transmission connect to the bell housing

Bottom Right

The red square show the part that goes in the rear of the VW Engine.



One problem I saw was the Chevy transmission shaft being to long, my fix’s would be add spacers between the trans and steel plate or bring the trans to a machine shop and get them to grind it do (Or do it yourself) So what do ya think? Could this be accomplished?

Thanks,
Brian
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Old October 9th, 2004, 06:56 PM   #2
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It sounds like it would work as long as the splines on the clutch disc match up with the splines on the chevy input shaft. The rest is just alignment and spacing issues.

Now someone needs to build it! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Idunno.gif[/img]
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Old October 10th, 2004, 06:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by hotrodheb@Oct 9 2004, 06:56 PM
Now someone needs to build it! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Idunno.gif[/img]
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
I'm working on it [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

As for the splines, I figure a machine shop could cut out a VW disc to fit a Chevy trans, I'm going up to a local shop sometime this week to ask them about pricing for the bracket and I'll ask them about the splines [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

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Old October 10th, 2004, 06:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlatBlacker+Oct 10 2004, 09:43 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FlatBlacker @ Oct 10 2004, 09:43 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-hotrodheb@Oct 9 2004, 06:56 PM
Now someone needs to build it! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Idunno.gif[/img]
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
I'm working on it [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

As for the splines, I figure a machine shop could cut out a VW disc to fit a Chevy trans, I'm going up to a local shop sometime this week to ask them about pricing for the bracket and I'll ask them about the splines [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Brian
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

There should be a local shop that rebuilds clutches,etc.. We have one and he can put any splined center you want on the disc. Not too difficult.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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Old October 10th, 2004, 01:13 PM   #5
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
There should be a local shop that rebuilds clutches,etc.. We have one and he can put any splined center you want on the disc. Not too difficult.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]


Good idea I'll have to check out to see if there is a shop around here that can do it.
thanks for the idea [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

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Old October 10th, 2004, 02:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlatBlacker@Oct 9 2004, 09:35 PM
There’s been talk of creating a front engine air-cooled Volksrod but no one has been able to figure it out right? Well, I think I may of got it. What you would use is the bell housing off a late model bus, the housing comes off with the removal of about ten ½" nuts once the bell housing is off you have the 10 studs sticking out and what better than to use a 1/4" to ½" piece of steel and make a bracket to adapt a Chevy transmission (Similar to the one used in a Corvette) The end of the shaft on the Chevy trans fits amazingly well into the rear of the VW Engine. I figure if you can engineer the bracket you could use the stock VW pressure plate and flywheel along with the original throw out bearing and mechanism. Here’s some photo shops of the idea.

One problem I saw was the Chevy transmission shaft being to long, my fix’s would be add spacers between the trans and steel plate or bring the trans to a machine shop and get them to grind it do (Or do it yourself) So what do ya think? Could this be accomplished?

Thanks,
Brian

Brian,

I have seen this done before. There is a guy down here that runs a FE fastback, with the local VW drag racers. He has the engine connected to a 1/4" motor plate, connected to a late model bus bellhousing, connected to a ~1/2" AL adapter to muncie. I'm not sure what clutch he is using, but since he runs a turbo; I am going to assume he is running a Centerforce clutch. They do make a clutch for this application. Don't ask for the price of it [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek1.gif[/img] That is as far as I got with it, but ( I don't have a clutch plate handy) I think that the VW clutch has a riveted center in it I don't see why not remove the center from the VW plate and connect a Chevy center to it.
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Old October 10th, 2004, 02:41 PM   #7
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So it will work.... awesome [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Dancing.gif[/img] Yeah a centerforce is way out of my price (probably for as long as I live too) I dont think I'll need a super strong clutch, this is going to be a crusier only. I'm pretty sure a VW clutch does have rivets so the conversion should be fairly simple (I hope)



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Old October 11th, 2004, 07:29 PM   #8
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I think you got a good thing going there, if I could add my two cents you might want to find someone running a front engine dragster because they commonly run a powergiide and 8 or 9 inch ford in those cars. Seems to me that hot vws and trends have run several articles on those cars. I would love to build a front engined car. GOOD LUCK
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Old October 11th, 2004, 07:36 PM   #9
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Just thought about something else, you mjght want to contact Kennedy adapters they are in southern Cal and make adapters to mate chevy ford toyota just about any motor to a vw trans so they might be able to make a adapter to put that chev trans to the vw motor or maybe they can answer some of your qs.
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Old October 11th, 2004, 07:57 PM   #10
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You can buy the adapter plate to bolt a Chevy bellhousing on to a air cooled Beetle. The last time this subject came up,maybe 6 weeks ago,
someone posted the source.All the hard work has been done,and it looked to be well made.I'm sure if you search here for Powerglide,you will find it.

The Chevy V8 pattern is the same for Automatics and standard transmissions.
So you could use a just about any transission used by Chevy in the last 40+ years. Powerglide,T350,T400,4L460,T5,Saginaw,Muncie,etc.

Powerglides are pretty tough for racing,if you spend enough money on them,but I doubt a Beetle street motor would have enough torque to pull the steep first gear.

A T5,and 4L460 are both overdrive in high gear.

My personal choice would be a T5,perhaps from a 4 cyl,or 6 cyl Camaro,
to get the proper ratios.
The S10 truck transmissions,and the V8s had different ratios.

A hydraulic throwout bearing would make life simpler.
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Old October 11th, 2004, 09:30 PM   #11
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Oldskool, Yeah I've got alot of research to do on making this thing before it becomes a reality so pointing me towards dragsters is a big help.

Oldskool and Unkl Ian,

I'm trying to steer clear of Kennedy, this is one of those thing I hope to make and prove it will work so other people can use it, and not spend big bucks on a adapter. But I'll check out Kennedy anyway for prices and ideas.

Unkl Ian,

A camaro trans would be my first choice because a hydraulic throwout bearing would make my life alot easier and the ratios. As for racing the car, a big no flag pops up this thing is going to be so heavy and rusty I wouldn't trust my life in it, So its just going to be a crusier /show car. And plus the track would have to add a minute hand to their clock [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rollingeyes.gif[/img]


Thanks for the replys,
Brian
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Old October 12th, 2004, 10:40 AM   #12
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Popular subject,here is a previous thread.
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Old October 27th, 2004, 06:21 PM   #13
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I saw this done with a Corvair mounted in the front of a T- Bucket. Since a lot of Corvair powered kit cars used V W trans it should be able to be done. I'll look at some of my old rod mags and see what I can figure out. Good Luck
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Old October 27th, 2004, 06:24 PM   #14
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sneaky sneaky newbie....how bout posting an intro and telling us who you are instead of just poking your head into our home without a hello. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Idunno.gif[/img]

And don't forget...get out that camera and go bend the wife over the backyard fence!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yelling.gif[/img]








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Old October 28th, 2004, 06:13 AM   #15
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The Corvair-powered bucket I think you're remembering was done by an Early Times member over thirty years ago. I belive he fabbed up a drive shaft and adapters to transfer from the engine up front to the transaxle (with the ring gear flopped around) at the rear. IIRC, his was an automatic, and the flywheel/flexplate was back at the tranny end. It's kind of like a more extreme version of the "Swedish trike" set up, and is what I've been considering as a possibility for a T-modified idea that's been bouncing around in my head for ten years or so now.

Another idea that's been batted around over hear occasionally is the T4 bellhousing with a shaft running back to a 924/944 transaxle in the rump of the car. Kinda like an Air-Cooled C5/C6 Corvette.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 06:31 AM   #16
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Does anybody know were I can find a picture like this for a 914 Porsche engine and transaxle? I'm looking for a straight on side and top view for the designing of Manx's car. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Walt [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bowdown.gif[/img]


Now back to the origanal topic.............................. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/funny.gif[/img]
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Old October 29th, 2004, 07:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by gowjobs@Oct 28 2004, 06:13 AM
The Corvair-powered bucket I think you're remembering was done by an Early Times member over thirty years ago. I belive he fabbed up a drive shaft and adapters to transfer from the engine up front to the transaxle (with the ring gear flopped around) at the rear. IIRC, his was an automatic, and the flywheel/flexplate was back at the tranny end. It's kind of like a more extreme version of the "Swedish trike" set up, and is what I've been considering as a possibility for a T-modified idea that's been bouncing around in my head for ten years or so now.
I've built a bunch of Corvair/front engine cars( mostly drag cars), adapted to 4spd Muncie, turbo 400 automatic, or Lenco with a multi-disk clutch; all driven through a conventional rear. The modified corvair engine could make more horsepower than the transaxle could stand, so I had to come up with something bulletproof! The corvair is fairly simple to adapt. If you want rear wheel drive, front engine A/C VW; the drag racer Powerglide adapter would be the easiest and it's commercially available.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 07:27 PM   #18
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What about the starter? With the VW, the starter comes in from the tranny side. How will you clear the engine with the starter coming in from the engine side? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Idunno.gif[/img] My friend is experimenting with a Ford automatic tranny. He is trying to spin the bolt on bell housing to run the starter under the engine exhaust.
I made a flywheel and adapter to put a Toyota 22r on a 091 tranny. I used t6 aluminum for the adapter and spacing. Cut the center from a 22r flywheel and step machined it to bolt to the center of a Vanogon flywheel. Was a bit of work but turned out great. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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Old November 2nd, 2004, 04:42 PM   #19
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Ok guys. I knew I had seen something about this idea. The August 2000 edition of Hot VWs page 72. Tim Norwood of Sevierville, Tn. has a front engined drag car. He is running a 2233cc engine hooked to a GM powerglide 2 speed with a Chassis Shop adaptor. He runs a center mounted Tilton starter with a TCI flex plate with a stock GM ring gear. Dean Joslin of Dean's Imports in Knoxville, Tn built the engine. Might be able to get info from him.

Good luck

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Old November 2nd, 2004, 05:04 PM   #20
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guys.. it's gotta be easier than that.. talk to the guys that make water cooled busses, I'm fairly confident that it's not so hard... I think they use the stock trans.

if they do use the stock trans, with it's original bell housing, then the water cooled engine bolts up to the air cooled trans

just an inch of inductive logic.. the converse would also be true.. with the water cooled trans bolting up to the air cooled engine.

the size issue to deal with would then be in placing the air cooled engine above any drive shafts or whatever if using a golf or jetta... or it seems fairly cut and dry for fox based conversions.

the easy way to check would be taking a print of the lip of the water cooled bell housing, and checking it against an air cooled engine or trans.

the problem would be making it RWD.. but why bother with that... or if you have to , use a syncro trans out of a quantum.. then you would have the option of making front, rear or AWD

just some thoughts

ROCK ON
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Old November 6th, 2004, 05:35 AM   #21
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Just like on the other thread on this topic...(some of)you guys aren't following.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> There’s been talk of creating a front engine air-cooled Volksrod but no one has been able to figure it out right? [/b][/quote]


The "look" is traditional hotrod...motor/tranny in the front and live axle in the rear. Nearly any motor can be adapted to a type one or bus tranny....that's not the question here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the problem would be making it RWD.. but why bother with that[/b][/quote]

Because that's the look some are after.... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rollingeyes.gif[/img]

This awesome picture by Blackie is the look( I believe) that people are shooting for.....at least I would like a similar setup....with a VW motor or a Honda! If I only had some talent....and money....time...ambition......
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Old November 6th, 2004, 02:22 PM   #22
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the problem would be making it RWD.. but why bother with that[/b][/quote]

Why bother choping the top? Why bother moving the front end forward? Why? Why? Why?





















Why not....


Thanks for everyone's replys,
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Old November 6th, 2004, 03:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by alltypesvw@Nov 2 2004, 06:04 PM
the size issue to deal with would then be in placing the air cooled engine above any drive shafts or whatever if using a golf or jetta... or it seems fairly cut and dry for fox based conversions.



the problem would be making it RWD.. but why bother with that... or if you have to , use a syncro trans out of a quantum.. then you would have the option of making front, rear or AWD

just some thoughts

ROCK ON
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Dude, how the fuck did you equate water cooled with Golf or Jetta? Watercooled VANAGON! The idea was to use a Type 4-ish bus bellhousing, which was seperate from the rest of the transaxle to then adapt to a standard, RWD style transmission OR to adapt it by building a bearing/seal/intermediate shaft to run a driveshaft back to a rear-mounted transaxle.

Why bother making it rear wheel drive? Why don't you go back to a restorer's forum? Same answer.
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Old November 6th, 2004, 04:32 PM   #24
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>.. but why bother with that ?[/b][/quote]

To quote Jesse James: "Because it's WRONG !" [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]










What better way to piss off the Purists ?
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Old December 11th, 2004, 12:09 PM   #25
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Dazywalker: I posted my Intro. Oh, my old lady is kind of a prude. Can I just post the two pics I have of your old lady. Ha Ha just fun.
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