Cut-Weld-Drive Forums

Go Back   Cut-Weld-Drive Forums > The VolksRodders Forum > The Cutting Board

The Cutting Board Cut... Weld... DRIVE.


User Information
Your Avatar

Stuff to check out...

Cool stuff you NEED!

Forum Stats
Members: 17,517
Threads: 32,252
Posts: 544,963
Total Online: 483

Newest Member: jackrainslv@gmail

Latest Threads
- by Harold

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 12th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #51
rostigbug
Forum Member
 
rostigbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tucson AZ
Posts: 2,337
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducecoupe View Post
Gentlemen, my name is Lonnie Gilbertson, I built and own the firebug.... Thanks for letting me express myself. This is the first time I have ever posted anything to any site. I hope this will get read and not lost. Thank You,
Lonnie
Right (write) on ducecoupe-Lonnie
I guess I get to be first to say Welcome
Let me join everybody else here in expressing simpathy for your damaged car & injuries and relief it was not worse.
BTW thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to sit down & write the whole story! Informative
__________________
heuristic paradigm
rostigbug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 01:52 AM   #52
RichG
Forum Member
 
RichG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out in the Wheat, Garfield, WA.
Posts: 932
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Thank you Lonnie, you're another in a long list of people I've heard say they won't run a cast axle, your experience is definitely not lost here.
__________________
Has anyone seen my clue? I know I left it laying around here somewhere...
RichG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 03:43 AM   #53
Scott76
Forum Member
 
Scott76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fleetwood, PA
Posts: 3,964
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Thank you for clearing some of it up for me. I guess we will never know the line of events in what order they all happened. Looking at the axle it looked like a brittle failure (I'm not expert, just a little training). Think the axle fatigued from the flex & broke? If you look at the axle straight on. Is the break, up to a slight angle (shearing)?

Can you tell us what hit where (pole, mailbox, & tree)?

I'm sorry for your lose, BUT happy you could limp away. I hope you take some time and think about rebuilding the Fire Bug. That is one kickass car.

Thank you came on here and telling us the story. Welcome aboard. We need more guys like you around here.
__________________
Bugger Off

Fleetwing Camper

Going to the Basement
Scott76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 06:23 AM   #54
Daddy o's 67
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nothern Virginia
Posts: 565
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

I too would like to thank you for writing about what happened to the Fire Bug. We can all learn from experience's like this. Get well soon, the garage is calling.
Daddy o's 67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 07:04 AM   #55
ducecoupe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: milwaukie oregon
Posts: 51
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

To look at the axel it looks like it just snapped. The outside of the king pin boss showed some clean break and also some dark places that went into the bore. The metal post mail box hit just right of center, the right front hit the curb first and than the oak tree, the left front hit the telephone pole. Guess I am lucky that a big rock was not in place also. Hope this helps. Lonnie
ducecoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 07:09 AM   #56
reddog
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 147
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Thank You for telling your account. Man I hate it when stuff goes wrong. I am glad you are OK. I know this was your first time posting but I hope you will stick around and share some of your experience with the rest of us.
Once again welcome and I am glad you are (relatively) not hurt that bad. Although seeing all that work destroyed I know I would be more then heart broken.
God Speed to you Brother.
reddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 08:19 AM   #57
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 16,956
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducecoupe View Post
....they have done a re-desigh to correct problems. I told them I had corrected the problems, however, I had trouble with axle flex, they told me to call the Manufacturer, it wasn't their problem. A call to the Manufacturer put me in touch with the owner he was very interested in helping me fix my problem....
Lonnie: Glad you lived to tell the story.

So this thing snapped after almost zero miles,
destroying the car. Is the manufacturer still
interested in helping to fix this problem ?

Where can I buy one of these axles ?
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 08:24 AM   #58
Halfastvw
Forum Member
 
Halfastvw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Belleview, Fl.
Posts: 122
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

OK, let's hear some input on this...
I know a guy who flipped his 32 ford after the tube axle broke at about the same place that this axle did.
It was determined that using "hair pins" and not a four bar set-up was twisting the axle more as it traveled up and down at different amounts on each side.
could this effect also be exaggerated by these short hair pins possibly?
Just a thought
__________________
VOLXROD
67 Microbus

http://skidmarksgarage.com/
Halfastvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #59
ducecoupe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: milwaukie oregon
Posts: 51
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

I have not contacted Speedway, or the axle manufacturer. At this point I feel it is best left to the Insurance Co. I am sure they are not going to pay me and walk away happy, they will want to get their money back. I know it is not politically correct and I apologize in advance for affending anyone, but may God ride with all of us that love the sport.Thank you for allowing me to share my experience
Lonnie
ducecoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #60
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 16,956
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfastvw View Post
OK, let's hear some input on this...
I know a guy who flipped his 32 ford after the tube axle broke at about the same place that this axle did.
It was determined that using "hair pins" and not a four bar set-up was twisting the axle more as it traveled up and down at different amounts on each side.
could this effect also be exaggerated by these short hair pins possibly?

One advantage of running an I-beam, compared to a tube axle,
is an I beam CAN twist when using hairpins.
Tubes can not twist, stressed hard enough,
something will eventually break.
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net


Last edited by Unkl Ian; May 13th, 2010 at 09:00 AM.
Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 08:59 AM   #61
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 16,956
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie: Did ALL the front end parts come from Speedway ?
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 09:18 AM   #62
ducecoupe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: milwaukie oregon
Posts: 51
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Yes all the front end parts came from speedway. The cross steer rack and pinon came from another sorce. Lonnie
ducecoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 09:32 AM   #63
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 16,956
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducecoupe View Post
Yes all the front end parts came from Speedway.
I think there is a trend developing.

Broken Corvair Pitman Arm from Speedway:
http://ratrodsrule.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2191

Broken Vega Pitman Arm from Speedway:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296073

Broken Batwing from Speedway:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=402591


How long before someone gets killed ?
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 09:45 AM   #64
walt
Forum Member
 
walt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca.
Posts: 3,254
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie,
First off I want to thank you for coming on here and sharing your experience with us and I too, want to say how happy I am that you were not more seriously hurt. I also want to say that I think that the Firebug was one of, if not, the best looking volksrod I've ever seen.
I am personally glad that you shared this info with us because I have spent my Hotrodding career trying to enphisize the importance of saftey in our sport. I am constantly telling people to not believe everything that the retailers are trying to sell us. There is so much junk produced and sold to unsuspecting rodders that it's scary.
It goes to show also that if a car as beautiful, and well built, as yours is vulnerable to this sort of thing, what are the issues with some of these "Rat Rods" that are so hap-hazardly thrown together.

Now ........... So is it possible that the king pin boss broke first which made the car drop on the right front and also created the loss of steering and the axle broke inside of the spring pirch bolt when it hit the tree?

I've also posted your accident on the club hot rod forum so that people are aware of what to watch out for.

Thanks again, Walt
__________________
Give me something to cut with, I'm going to build a Volksrod.

I'm bilingual.......I talk to men and women

My Volks-Rod
Rat Patrol Web Page
Rat Patrol photos
Rat Patrol Car Build Thread
Rat Patrol Timeline
Rat Patrol Videos
(RIGHT click and choose SAVE TARGET AS and download to your PC)
Movie1
Movie2
walt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 10:02 AM   #65
markh
Forum Member
 
markh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 661
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie, thank you for posting the insight. Very much appreciate hearing from you.

The first Volksrod I built used that same Speedway 5" drop I-beam kit...must have been their junk version back in '06??? Anyway, the steering configuration that came in the box just did not work at all. I too converted it to a cross-steering and went through several trials on the steering arm set up.

After setting the toe-in, mine drove straight down the road. Never checked if there was any variance in toe-in with wheels off the ground since it drove so well. Never expected the axle to "flex" at ALL considering the front of the bug weighed nothing.

Can only imagine what that I-beam would do with a v-8 hanging over it? Yikes.

Keep us updated on what direction or plans you have for the Fire Bug.
Mark
markh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 10:09 AM   #66
Jogyver
Forum Member
 
Jogyver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW of Chicago
Posts: 329
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfastvw View Post
OK, let's hear some input on this...
I know a guy who flipped his 32 ford after the tube axle broke at about the same place that this axle did.
It was determined that using "hair pins" and not a four bar set-up was twisting the axle more as it traveled up and down at different amounts on each side.
could this effect also be exaggerated by these short hair pins possibly?
Just a thought
The tube axle is a combination tube with welded casted ends. did the failure occur on the casting , the tube side or at the weld?

Lonnie , Glad to hear you are alright.
Is it possible to take few close up photos of the fractured ends of the axle and post them. Colors of the casting, and possible casting defects could indicated the mechanism of your axle failure.
Jogyver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 10:36 AM   #67
ducecoupe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: milwaukie oregon
Posts: 51
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

I am new to this stuff, I don't know how to post photos. I live in Milwaukie Oregon if someone lives close that knows how to post photo's and wants to come over and take pictures and post them, they are more than welcome.
Lonnie
ducecoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 11:55 AM   #68
Palepainter
Forum Member
 
Palepainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lafayette, CO
Posts: 1,344
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie,
Thanks for taking the time to come here and clarify the questions on the equipment used on your car. It certainly was a head turner. Really glad you made it through this with out major injury. Your skills are fantastic. My friend Matt Howard at Deluxe Customs in Phx was the guy who had sent me pics of your car after the accident.

You being here will be a great help to a lot of people here.

Thanks!
__________________
http://www.mikelearn.com
Palepainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #69
ducecoupe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: milwaukie oregon
Posts: 51
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Another point to share, my front tires were 7" wide my tires that I was going to use to drag race with were goodyear front runners on 4" wheels. When I put the front runners on for a drive test it seamed to like the narrower tires. Lonnie
ducecoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 12:33 PM   #70
markh
Forum Member
 
markh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 661
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie, I work nearby. I have your number so I'll give you a call on Friday to arrange a time to come by after work and take some photos. I'll post photos the photos for you.
Jogyver, other than the pass side front and close up of the beam, any specific photo requests? Mark
markh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 12:42 PM   #71
Unkl Ian
Trouble Maker and Bad Influence
 
Unkl Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A distant galaxy;far,far,away.
Posts: 16,956
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markh View Post
any specific photo requests? Mark

Anything that bent or broke in the crash.
__________________

www.FlyingEyeballs.net

Unkl Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 12:50 PM   #72
walt
Forum Member
 
walt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca.
Posts: 3,254
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

I would like a good clear close-up of the broken king pin boss.
__________________
Give me something to cut with, I'm going to build a Volksrod.

I'm bilingual.......I talk to men and women

My Volks-Rod
Rat Patrol Web Page
Rat Patrol photos
Rat Patrol Car Build Thread
Rat Patrol Timeline
Rat Patrol Videos
(RIGHT click and choose SAVE TARGET AS and download to your PC)
Movie1
Movie2
walt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 01:46 PM   #73
vw56ovalchick
Forum Member
 
vw56ovalchick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,169
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

I was very sad to see this picture of that beautiful car. I have seen in a few times around milwaukie and portland at shows and just cruising. It was a beautiful car. Lonnie I am glad you made it out safely. Sorry to hear about your car.

Danielle
vw56ovalchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #74
UT-X
Forum Member
 
UT-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 535
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie I'm really sad to see your bug in that condition BUT I sincerely hope this is not the last we'll hear from you. You seem like a great fit with this crew!
UT-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #75
AirheadZim
Forum Member
 
AirheadZim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 2,596
Member Photo Albums
Default Re: Loss of a great car.

Lonnie.... thanks for taking the time to write to all of us so that we can learn from your experience with this car. As a volksrodder with a new project that includes a dropped I-beam front axle, this does cause me some concern. My front axle is old school detroit iron, so I don't have an issue or worry about using the goods or services from Speedway. Everything on my VR looks to be good solid construction, even somewhat utilitarian, like possibly from a truck. I'll be adding a rack and pinion and mount with other steering items, and will be posting pics of the work in my thread, Zim's Garage. Thanks again Lonnie.
Zim
__________________
Zim'rod (zim'-rod)n.- a handbuilt Volkswagen hotrod or jalopy, sometimes a pick-up, from several different years of the classic German automobile. In particular, 67', 69', 72', and 74' model years. Built from the realm of an insane mind, with a volksrod theme or style. Thank you bugdust.
Daily driver: 91' Cadillac Brougham.
AirheadZim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
broken, broken axle, crash, dangerous, speedway

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ALL text, images, graphics and content herein are Copyright 2002 - 2013 Three Pugs Design - Cut Weld Drive Forums