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Old November 2nd, 2011, 12:11 AM   #1
tattooed_pariah
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Default Pancake engine in a bug..
Re:: tell me why i'm an idiot :P   

So I tried searching for "type 3 conversion" and came up empty handed..

I'm sure if this worked well, someone would have done it, but i've never heard of it before..

Has anyone ever thrown a type 3 pancake engine into a bug? or modified a type 1 engine to look like a type 3?

I think it would clean up the engine compartment nicely and look good to ditch the fan shroud and most of the shit up top, and obviously it's possible to do since type 3's run without all the crap on top..

I imagine that this would take cutting up the engine compartment and welding it to fit the type 3 cooling. but what other issues are there? everyone talks about minimalizing shit in the engine compartment, this seems like agreat way to do it, so why don't i see/hear about it more often?
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 04:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Yep a few have done it. Did you search 'flat engine'?
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 05:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

The problem might be that a standard type-1 crankcase dont have the mountingpoints for the type-3 fanhousing. The late bus 1600 engines should have the mountingpoints in the diecast. Possibly not predrilled and threaded. Type-1 and type-3 also have the oilpressure sender in different places.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 06:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

I put a '72 squareback motor in Lumpy. He's got no aprons so fitment was a non issue.
I also deleted the stock TIII oil cooler & modified the cooling tin. I believe this has eleminated the #3 o'heat nissue
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 06:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

I friend of my Dad drove a baja bug for years with a Type 3 motor in it. No issues that I remember.

One thing that might be an issue is the type of exhaust you use. The Type 3 engine pulls its cooling air with the fan mounted on the rear end of the crankshaft. This is right above the stock exhaust thus pulling in hot air. The Type 3 uses a rubber boot to connect the fan housing to the duct work leading up to the vents in the fenders, thus pulling in cool air.

My Dad's buddy ran bazooka style exhausts off to either side of the engine so this was not a problem. He also ran a screen over the fan housing opening to keep from pulling crap into the engine.

Keep in mind that the Type 3 motor is also a 4-6" longer out back than a Type 1 motor.

I think a motor with Type 3 cooling would be good in a Volksrod with a tranny raise and most of the tin and rear fenders removed.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 11:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

I think mouldy used one ...
http://z13.invisionfree.com/VolksRod...showtopic=4372

Looks like it from here ...

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Old November 2nd, 2011, 03:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Your and Idiot 'cus your not thinking of just swapping as T4 in there instead.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 04:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

"Your and Idiot"
IDK whut this meens
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 08:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Matt,

you might just have to throw a bed on the back...





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Old November 2nd, 2011, 08:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

The "tell me why I'm an idiot." Does this have to do with the Type 3 engine swap, or just life in general?
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 09:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplemyth View Post
Yep a few have done it. Did you search 'flat engine'?
haha sorry didn't think of that :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebster52 View Post
The problem might be that a standard type-1 crankcase dont have the mountingpoints for the type-3 fanhousing. The late bus 1600 engines should have the mountingpoints in the diecast. Possibly not predrilled and threaded. Type-1 and type-3 also have the oilpressure sender in different places.
see here's the technical details I was looking for.. thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaransonT3 View Post
I friend of my Dad drove a baja bug for years with a Type 3 motor in it. No issues that I remember.

One thing that might be an issue is the type of exhaust you use. The Type 3 engine pulls its cooling air with the fan mounted on the rear end of the crankshaft. This is right above the stock exhaust thus pulling in hot air. The Type 3 uses a rubber boot to connect the fan housing to the duct work leading up to the vents in the fenders, thus pulling in cool air.

My Dad's buddy ran bazooka style exhausts off to either side of the engine so this was not a problem. He also ran a screen over the fan housing opening to keep from pulling crap into the engine.

Keep in mind that the Type 3 motor is also a 4-6" longer out back than a Type 1 motor.

I think a motor with Type 3 cooling would be good in a Volksrod with a tranny raise and most of the tin and rear fenders removed.
I don't have a problem trying to figure ou t how to fabricate something to make it a little longer, but I wanna keep my rear apron/fenders..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post
Your and Idiot 'cus your not thinking of just swapping as T4 in there instead.
I'm trying to eliminate the crap on top of the case, so I can mount my MSD box and whatever else and have it look really clean..

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8Transporter View Post
The "tell me why I'm an idiot." Does this have to do with the Type 3 engine swap, or just life in general?
lol, maybe both :P
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 09:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

TP if you want to keep your aprons & stuff I do not think it can be done.
you are right the TIII engine looks cleaner & I like that on Lumpy 'cuz with no aprons & fenders the motor is hanging out like a Baja with a stock decklid added on.
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 09:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rostigbug View Post
TP if you want to keep your aprons & stuff I do not think it can be done.
you are right the TIII engine looks cleaner & I like that on Lumpy 'cuz with no aprons & fenders the motor is hanging out like a Baja with a stock decklid added on.

yeah, I've become rather attached to the look with the 3" wider read fenders, '39 Ford teardrop taillights and 8" wide tires..
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Old November 5th, 2011, 09:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Man I think I died an went to typo heaven. My old black car had a T4 motor in it with no apron and a baja cover across it in the standard location. Gonna try the T4 in the Zimrod. I think it'll work, but I think the pancake motor is a great choice for a vod truck.
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Old November 5th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

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Man I think I died an went to typo heaven. My old black car had a T4 motor in it with no apron and a baja cover across it in the standard location. Gonna try the T4 in the Zimrod. I think it'll work, but I think the pancake motor is a great choice for a vod truck.
I have a 914, 2 lter in my '69Bug with a upright fan housing and 40mm Dellortos
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Old November 5th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

One of my great motivators has been to have someone tell me that, "it can't be done." Obviously this works with a lot of folks 'cause I've seen just about everything stuffed in about everything else. Although, the mid-fifties supercharged Kiaser inline six dropped into a '41 Ford business couple was a little weird. Anyway, one of the great things about this forum is the 'can do' attitude of the members.
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Old November 5th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8Transporter View Post
One of my great motivators has been to have someone tell me that, "it can't be done." Obviously this works with a lot of folks 'cause I've seen just about everything stuffed in about everything else. Although, the mid-fifties supercharged Kiaser inline six dropped into a '41 Ford business couple was a little weird. Anyway, one of the great things about this forum is the 'can do' attitude of the members.
I agree with you. Just like us folks that put V8's in Volkswagens,right?
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Old November 5th, 2011, 03:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

Funny thing, but I was actually partially inspired to drop a V8 in my Single Cab by a gas station owner in near by Sunnyvale, CA. This was in the mid-sixties. He had been in the Army in Germany and combined the 401 Buick powertrain from a wrecked Army staff car with a (then) late model bug, and he'd brought it home with him. The car was white or tan and as I recall, looked pretty stock. The rear axle had been narrowed and the front seats were back a bit, but he ran it all over town. It seems to me that he had the radiator in the back and a Mercedes electric fan. One thing I recall is him saying that the project, "spoke to me." If it's anything like the voices I sometimes hear, it said something like, "build me you fool!"
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Old November 5th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

I guess if I want that clean look, I'd have to go for an actual 914 engine or something..

Really the thought only occured to me because a buddy is selling his old Notch and I noticed while looking through the pics that it doesn't have a shroud, but obviously still stays cool.

I'd like to eliminate the shroud/alternator from their current spots, and bolt my MSD 6AL to the firewall along with whatever other gadgets will need a place to call home. I just don't like how it looks when people use the firewall but it's hidden by the shroud.. A) It just makes to too cluttered and B) I would think that would restrict airflow going into the intake of the shroud..
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Old November 6th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Pancake engine in a bug..

one thing that you will run into also, the type 3 cylinder tins are in the way of bug style intake manifolds. If you want to run a stock type 1 intake, won't work without mods. kadrons, not either as the carbs hit the tin. You CAN get IDF intakes from CB Performance. They make getting to the spark plugs tough.
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