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Old December 16th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #1
Ray-Dean
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Question head light and shock tower help please.....

Winter is here so it's time to get back out in the shop right????

Anyway, I've been toying with different ways to mount the lights on Alteisen. The original plan was to mount two tubes in place of the beam on the framehead and run mounts forward from there. Then the thought of stress from the shocks made me rethinks a bit. As for now, I'm leaning towards fabbing up a set of I beams that will again mount to two tubes attached to the framehead.

The overall idea is to mount the head lights and the shocks in the same basic location. That way I can keep the clean simple lines going. The reason for using an I beam design for the mounts is to reduce any side to side movement.

Sound like a winner or not?
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Old December 16th, 2009, 03:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

I am sure it will work. And with you designing and building it, it will be more than strong enough!
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Old December 16th, 2009, 05:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....




Pics might help.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 07:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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Pics might help.
I was thinking the same thing ian....and that pic just sums it all up perfectly.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Mount them on a fluffy pillow
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Old December 16th, 2009, 08:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

I thought everyone had a pic of Al on their wall, guess it's just me!
















Just kidding, don't flatter yourself, Ray! Sorry, my brain hurts too much to think right now, but I'm sure whatever you come up with will be superior design wise to what my lazy dumbass could come up with!
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Old December 16th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Ray-Dean, I am curious to see how you solve it. I will be facing a similar challenge as I put the 41 straight axle on mine. I would figure out some ideas but it is TOO COLD for this California boy!

I will light up a little kerosene heater and maybe it will get warm enough in the garage after a couple of days so I can take a look I need to draw up a couple of ideas.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 05:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Fair enough. Here is a quick MS paint rendering of what I have in mind...







And it will all mount here.... (sorry no recent pics of Al...)








Does that help? The idea is to keep the shocks as close to true verticle as I can. This mount IMO, will achieve the desired effect, and to stay out of the way of the springs and side steering travel, they will have to splay out. I am trying to keep from adding a spreader bar b/t them. That is the reason for wrapping them ala I-beam style...

The holes may or may not find their way into the final design. I like the look and it is totally doable, but not sure yet though. By the way, the "side plates" will be made out of 3/16" plate wrapped with 1/4"x1.5" strap material.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 07:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

I like the looks of these, maybe a little too heavy.



Some cool rotary or friction shocks mounted similar tho these would look cool and unobtrusive. Not sure how much shock absorption it would really provide on a street car.



If you do go with your design, or something similar, ya gotta do the holes!!
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Old December 17th, 2009, 08:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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Originally Posted by Ray-Dean View Post
Fair enough. Here is a quick MS paint rendering of what I have in mind...





The holes may or may not find their way into the final design. I like the look and it is totally doable, but not sure yet though. By the way, the "side plates" will be made out of 3/16" plate wrapped with 1/4"x1.5" strap material.
That is damn near exactly what I had pictured in my mind. And IMO, the holes have to stay!
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Old December 17th, 2009, 10:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Nice!
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Old December 17th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Hell, I forgot Al still had a frame head. I like the I-Beam idea.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 01:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray-Dean View Post
Fair enough. Here is a quick MS paint rendering of what I have in mind...







And it will all mount here.... (sorry no recent pics of Al...)




Does that help? The idea is to keep the shocks as close to true verticle as I can. This mount IMO, will achieve the desired effect, and to stay out of the way of the springs and side steering travel, they will have to splay out. I am trying to keep from adding a spreader bar b/t them. That is the reason for wrapping them ala I-beam style...

The holes may or may not find their way into the final design. I like the look and it is totally doable, but not sure yet though. By the way, the "side plates" will be made out of 3/16" plate wrapped with 1/4"x1.5" strap material.
That looks pretty damn good! Have you thought about running it back to the firewall (and tie in with the front suspension mounts)?
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Old December 17th, 2009, 03:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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That looks pretty damn good! Have you thought about running it back to the firewall (and tie in with the front suspension mounts)?

I could, but right now, the cab is completely removable as well as the bed. The frame head is the srtongest part of the front end and I'm actually more concerned about how it will hold up due to the stress of the shocke rather than the mounting area. The shocks on my '54 F-100 axle are all the way out next to the king pin boss. That will make the "I-beams" very far apart at the shock end. Flex is where I'm a bit iffy. How much stress would be applied to this area?
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Old December 17th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Something right up my alley...

Making a bunch of assumptions about dimensions and stuff, here is what I come up with...



Even mild steel has a yield strength over 30,000 psi so even with this relatively small I-beam size you shouldn't have any issues.

I tried to include the equations I used so that you can put the proper numbers in or even play around with some of the dimensions and stuff.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

wait, you said 2.43 in^4

wouldnt that make it about 690 psi?

either way its gonna be more than strong enough
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Old December 17th, 2009, 04:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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wait, you said 2.43 in^4

wouldnt that make it about 690 psi?

either way its gonna be more than strong enough
huh???

(12000 in-lbs x 2 in)/2.43 in^4 = 9876 psi

Don't know where the 690 comes from???
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Old December 17th, 2009, 05:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Yep! Just what I was thinking.

But remember, PIE are round not squared!!

John, can you tutor my kid in Math Via webcast??

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Old December 17th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #19
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Old December 17th, 2009, 07:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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huh???

(12000 in-lbs x 2 in)/2.43 in^4 = 9876 psi

Don't know where the 690 comes from???
2.43 to the 4th power? i thought it comes out to like 38ish. idk, im tired and doing mental math. either way his beam will be strong.

EDIT: i just did the math again and it came out to 689. and i used a calculator.... so one of us is wrong. maybe my approach is off, 9876 is what you get if you dont go 2.43 to the 4th.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 10:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

I can't deal with the math but that design looks great!
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Old December 18th, 2009, 04:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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Originally Posted by mikeridesbikes View Post
2.43 to the 4th power? i thought it comes out to like 38ish. idk, im tired and doing mental math. either way his beam will be strong.

EDIT: i just did the math again and it came out to 689. and i used a calculator.... so one of us is wrong. maybe my approach is off, 9876 is what you get if you dont go 2.43 to the 4th.
Aahh! I see the problem. It is not 2.43^4 in the equation. The units of moment of inertia (I) are in^4. The basic formula for I is I = base (in) x height^3 (in^3)/12 ===> units are in^4. When you plug in the numbers I assumed for Ray-Dean's I beam you get 2.43 in^4, not 2.43^4 in. See the difference?

My math is right. The stress is about 10,000 psi. Still plenty strong.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 04:08 AM   #23
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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Originally Posted by whozawhat View Post
Your I beam mount looks great...
watch the edge distance from the lightening holes to the outer band doesn't get too close, and set the shock up to apply the load directly under the center of the I beam so as not to apply any twisting force to the beam.

my 2 cents
Good point about the twist. I-beams are lousy for handling twist. If you don't want to hang a couple of tabs down to mount the shock to, you could box in the back side of the I-beam to make a closed section to help with the twist.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #24
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

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Aahh! I see the problem. It is not 2.43^4 in the equation. The units of moment of inertia (I) are in^4. The basic formula for I is I = base (in) x height^3 (in^3)/12 ===> units are in^4. When you plug in the numbers I assumed for Ray-Dean's I beam you get 2.43 in^4, not 2.43^4 in. See the difference?

My math is right. The stress is about 10,000 psi. Still plenty strong.
ohhhhh. i see what you meant. its quartic inches. i get it now. haha
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 06:00 AM   #25
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Default Re: head light and shock tower help please.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by whozawhat View Post
Your I beam mount looks great...
watch the edge distance from the lightening holes to the outer band doesn't get too close, and set the shock up to apply the load directly under the center of the I beam so as not to apply any twisting force to the beam.

my 2 cents
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaransonT3 View Post
Good point about the twist. I-beams are lousy for handling twist. If you don't want to hang a couple of tabs down to mount the shock to, you could box in the back side of the I-beam to make a closed section to help with the twist.

I've actually been thinking about using shocks with the stud up top (like stock bj shocks) that can mount through the I-beam.... The twist is what I'm worried about. I also thought about running a spreader bar from side to side or maybe tie it back into the frame head to act kind of like a diagnal brace. This might help fight the twist....
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