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Old July 16th, 2011, 04:16 PM   #1
brian10x
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Default Controversial subject on oil filters

This may stir healthy debate, and maybe a few heated arguments.

I recently had my engine rebuilt, and the rebuilders did not add provisions for an oil filter as I had asked.

Those simple filter/pump combos won't fit with my merged headers.

What to do?

After researching the easiest way to add an oil filter, I came across the subject of bypass oil filters. Specifically Frantz, the one that uses toilet paper rolls.

I burned the midnight oil for a week, googling everything and anything about bypass filters, specifically Frantz. I spent a good week glued to my computer.

I concluded that in a perfect world, we would be running our oil through both a full flow, then a bypass filter for maximum filtration.

Your typical full flow filter filters a large volume of oil, and filters it down to 5-10 microns. Advantage is that all the oil is filtered before reaching the engine.

Modern bypass filters (used a lot in heavy diesels I learned) can filter down to 1/10 of a micron. Disadvantage is that it only filters a small volume of your oil at a time.

My research also revealed that bypass filters were used in early Porsche engines and as an option on VWs. I don't know what type of filtering media they used.

So, not living in a perfect world, and intrigued by the bypass filtration, I bit on the Frantz. Hey, he's German, whats not to like?

First, I needed to get oil pressure to feed the filter. I got that from a T fitting as you can see in the first picture.

Second, I needed a return line to the engine. I tapped the fuel pump block off plate as seen in picture 2.

Filter is shown mounted in pictures 3 and 4, and how the car looks when all is said and done.

Comments welcome, from both sides.

Brian

Last edited by brian10x; July 17th, 2011 at 07:27 AM.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

IMO: Do not use toilet paper rolls!!! Back in the day at the DeAnza Auto Tech Department, we tore down a newer (at the time) V8 engine with an aftermarket TP Filter 'Kit.' The engine had seized due to bits of TP being in and around the mains, rod bearings and all the oil galleries.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

Toilet paper is designed for one thing only.

But I do agree that a decent filter is important.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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Originally Posted by V8Transporter View Post
IMO: Do not use toilet paper rolls!!! Back in the day at the DeAnza Auto Tech Department, we tore down a newer (at the time) V8 engine with an aftermarket TP Filter 'Kit.' The engine had seized due to bits of TP being in and around the mains, rod bearings and all the oil galleries.
Then something else was wrong. I've researched every owner I can find out there, and when used properly, TP will not break down in oil. It is designed to break down in water, but not oil.

I've done a lot of my research at an oil specialty forum:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I reviewed over 1000 threads on bypass filters including the Frantz , Motorguard, and Jackmaster which use TP.

In 1000 threads and countless internet searches, I have yet to find the results you claim when using the product the way it was designed.

Brian
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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Toilet paper is designed for one thing only.

But I do agree that a decent filter is important.
Then you would also have to agree that cardboard is good for one thing only.

By the way, I blow my nose in toilet paper, use it to wipe the sink, wipe my glasses, and polish glass.

I use cardboard in my oil filters, moving boxes, and to hold my take-out pizza.

More than one use for everything.

Nomenclature is what is holding you back. If it were simply referred to as "tightly wound tissue paper" it might not have such a negative connotation.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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Nomenclature is what is holding you back. If it were simply referred to as "tightly wound tissue paper" it might not have such a negative connotation.


NOBODY runs a toilet paper filter on a serious race motor.
A decent filter is cheap insurance.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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NOBODY runs a toilet paper filter on a serious race motor.
A decent filter is cheap insurance.

I think in this we have common ground. My engine will rarely if ever see severe operating conditions. Its strictly a weekend driver.

I agree that for racing conditions, a racing spec oil filter should be used.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

I'm not thinking so much as the TP breaking down in oil like it would water, depending on what brand you use, but what is this going to do to the free flowing nature of a vw engine? It has a single mesh screen , not an actually filter. (unless added on).
How is this going to effect Oil pressure? these things run on bare minimum, 7lbs at idle (stock that is) , compared to most V8's that idle at 20-40 (recalling my 302s).
Sounds to me like it's going to be too much restriction.

Just a thought~
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Old July 16th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

You have a valid concern about oil pressure. This is a bypass filter, meaning we bypass the main oil galleys and main oiling system, to take a low pressure, low volume (1/16" restrictor) sample of the oil , clean it, and return it to the engine.

For the most part, the main oiling system is unaffected. They say it takes 5-7 minutes to filter all the oil using this system.

One of the big benefits to me, at least, is it collects and holds moisture, up to 6 ounces, and since the car sits all week, I consider that a major asset.

Not saying its right for everybody, but it is for me.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 06:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

You stated at the top, healthy debate~

In all those threads, what brand tp did they suggest? Not all are the same. Seriously,,,, I'm thinking to fluffy, will disintegrate, too thick, too much restriction. (Think of the too soft, too coarse commercial and that poor guy with the funky head swipe hair cut).
Hubby suggests,,,, if you must go this way,
There is a tractor filter, it is the same exact size as TP roll, it is wrapped in a gauze like material. It's common on the old units. He doesn't know the part # off hand.
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My attraction to volksrods is that these are bottom-feeders where things are still real ... people scraping together parts, doing their own work and often on a tight budget. Real hot rodding is still alive here.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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You stated at the top, healthy debate~

In all those threads, what brand tp did they suggest? Not all are the same. Seriously,,,, I'm thinking to fluffy, will disintegrate, too thick, too much restriction. (Think of the too soft, too coarse commercial and that poor guy with the funky head swipe hair cut).
Hubby suggests,,,, if you must go this way,
There is a tractor filter, it is the same exact size as TP roll, it is wrapped in a gauze like material. It's common on the old units. He doesn't know the part # off hand.
Scott 1000. Nice and dense. Or they sell their own brand at the Frantz site.

I've also researched bypass filters for tractors and heavy equipment. Most are larger and more expensive. Amsoil makes a dandy spin on unit, but the filters are $28.00. Kleen-oil makes a nice unit, Luber-Finer, Gulf Coast, Trasko, Fleetguard, Magnefine, and Baldwin makes a sweet red spin on.

In the end, I weighed size, initial price, and on-going media costs, and decided this was best for me. Its even the same size as the original VW/Porsche unit.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 06:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

Have you tested the unit yet. How much oil is it passing through?
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Old July 16th, 2011, 07:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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Have you tested the unit yet. How much oil is it passing through?
I haven't done much of a test. They say if the filter body is hot then you are getting oil flow. I only have an oil pressure idiot light, so I can't check pressure, although I suspect it hasn't been affected, since I'm only bleeding a little oil off at a time.

Since it has a built in 1/16" orifice, oil flow can't be much.

I compare it to kidney dialysis for the engine.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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This may stir healthy debate, and maybe a few heated arguments.


What the fuck's new about that. Seems EVERYTHING you post here starts an argument.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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What the fuck's new about that. Seems EVERYTHING you post here starts an argument.
You have no idea how happy that makes me. Really.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 07:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

You wanna know about a little something about those "TP" oil filters?


I work on Caterpillar, John Deere, Case, Fiat-Allis, Cumins, Detroit, and International industrial engines all day, every day. The "TP" in the oil filter isn't actually toilet paper. That is a name they were given due to the way they look. Like referring to a starter solenoid as a "Bendix". Bendix is a company that made starter solenoids (among other parts), but they were the most common part so people just started calling them a bendix.

You want to run a filter of this design, give me your dimensions and I'll shoot you a part number for the actual filter. You compare it to a roll of Cottonelle and then you will understand. Until then, please keep your "I just solved every problem in the VW world" ideas to yourself.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 08:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

Since I just solved every problem in the VW world, I'm feeling pretty good. Thank you for mentioning that.

I will now take a day of rest, then first thing Monday morning I will set about solving more of the world's vexing problems.

If there are any issues weighing heavily upon you, son, please don't hesitate to free yourself of your burden and tell me what ails you. I can help.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

First of all, you wouldn't make the start of a pimple on my late dad's ass.

And I will now add you to the ignore list.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 08:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

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And I will now add you to the ignore list.
Or you could release your anger in a healthy way. I find painting water colors especially soothing when I am tense.

Or masturbation works as well.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

Ray Dean


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Old July 17th, 2011, 12:38 AM   #21
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

Wow...and I thought i was having a bad day....BOYS! BACK TO YOU ROOMS and clean up that mess while you're in there!

Yes, 'back in the day' there were filter systems that used a toilet paper roll element and the name stuck and Yes, there are some still around as you've found out. Any canister unit like the silver one pictured gets the TP name. Brian, the Porsche system you pictured uses a Fram element. Try looking on Ebay under 'porsche filter'.

Using an filtration system on your VW other than the one the good Dr. P. came up with is a perfectly good idea...nothing new. I just don't see the need to beat the shit out of the topic... you like the TP version, cool! Others disagree...tomato-tomoto!

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Old July 17th, 2011, 07:23 AM   #22
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=195
#1798.
If you want a filter but not tap the case, I would use the Maxi pump 3 from CB Performance. I have a friend that has ran it on his nitrous'ed 2332 for 7-8 years with no oiling problems shifting under 7000. Then you could mount a standered filter and have a good filter and full flow.
I have ran my 1850cc for 20+ years with a stock screen and 1 1/2 sump.
Tim
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Old July 17th, 2011, 07:38 AM   #23
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

Classic case of wimpiness~, start a discussion,KNOWING it's going to cause debate, stating the fact, 'heated and healthy debate',, can't take the heat and looky looky, deleted posts~(edit~which are now back, someone with more power than I)~ You wanted opinions, you got it~
Don't start threads if you can't take posts that follow

Can't take the heat? shut off the damn welder and get the hell out of the garage~
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Quote:
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My attraction to volksrods is that these are bottom-feeders where things are still real ... people scraping together parts, doing their own work and often on a tight budget. Real hot rodding is still alive here.
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Old July 17th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #24
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

I come here for the cotton candy and party dresses . . . if I want an argument, I go to the H.A.M.B.
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Old July 17th, 2011, 11:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: Controversial subject on oil filters

You told'em Carlene!

Awe come on Brian10x! That's not fair! Start a fight then run away....shades of that Jackalope from Montana who just wanted to argue about everything! Save that crap for for when your wife gets home!

TC will remember him...lol.
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