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Old November 7th, 2011, 01:43 PM   #1
a4maine
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Default Project Squatting Turd

I'm starting a new thread with appropriate title so you all don't have to dig through my intro and new-b questions to get to the good stuff.

Pictures at bottom. I have re-engineered the rear suspension geometry. Everything fabricated out of stock parts and bar stock. It had toed in like crazy and twisted the axle mounting points in a bad way (after 3" tranny raise). I did the following
- swing plates notched, extended w/ raised outer end
- Upper shock tower raised 3"
- Cross bar / new top shock mounting points

Lots of welding and grinding to the chop top, but still needs more. Added brass knuckle shifter. Welded bar stock around the sunroof so I can make it a suedo (snap on) rag top and keep water out.

Didn't take long to get real comfortable with a mig welder.

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Old November 7th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

It may not be pretty, but it's a strong weld. Hit it from both sides with good penetration on each. I didn't bother cleaning up the excess. If i'm wrong i'll have to get a better technique. I plan on thoroughly testing this car where there is no traffic or pedestrians . That way if something is going to go wrong it'll be away from traffic and slightly safer.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

You should probably seam that bad boy up, it looks like its just tacked together, thats not a whole lot of metal holding those two pieces together.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 08:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I agree with whooza & MC. You need to work on your welding technique. Think of this as constructive criticisum from guys who don't want your suspension letting you, um, down.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 10:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

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It may not be pretty, but it's a strong weld. Hit it from both sides with good penetration on each. I didn't bother cleaning up the excess. If i'm wrong i'll have to get a better technique. I plan on thoroughly testing this car where there is no traffic or pedestrians . That way if something is going to go wrong it'll be away from traffic and slightly safer.
As a professional welder, aws certified to the gills and carrier of many logged hours of mag testing, allow me to to be forward....for your safety.

Put the wels somewhere other than your car.

I realize everyone starts somewhere, but Jesus man, your stuff is scary. Almost as bad as the guy at back to the 50s a few years back with a rat rod that had black pipe sections and fittings for a steering system.

Others tried to be nice about it, and you clearly watched too many episodes of occ, so listen to experience at least.

That crap puts your life at risk, and worse yet, OTHERS LIVES AT RISK.

And btw kiddo, that's not a weld. It's a bunch of tacks that were burped from a gun.

As soon as you're ready to actually listen, i'll personally send you a pm with all sorts of info, tips and what to look for to inspect a weld for quality.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 11:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

SHEESH How many V'rodders does it take to jump on this poor guy???
I count 3 so far... let's see how many more feel the need to reiterate what has allready been said!
this is why I have never posted build pics of my VolksRod
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Old November 7th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I would also be worried abpout the unsupported steel brake line going out to the left rear wheel...
But what the hey.. it looks like it is a long way from being a DD.
A4M is 'prolly gunna get all the details squared away before driving it much.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 02:14 AM   #8
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

those spring plates could use some fish plates too.....otherwise its a sweet build and the sheetmetal work looks great!!
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Old November 8th, 2011, 02:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I appreciate everyones concern... i'm not trying to be arrogant, and no I don't have a ton of experience. I'm ALWAYS open to constructive criticism.But in my experience... if you don't jump in and take risks you'll never learn anything. I'll take the spring plates off and grind the bubbles off, take pictures and post it up so you can make a better judgement. They are NOT tacked together and i'm quite confident that, though ugly on top, they are strong... but we shall see.

And no... the brake lines aren't hooked up or secured. It's just a roller right now... and i'm looking to convert to discs before it's done. Lots more work before this is back on the road.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 02:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

A compliment! Thanks RatRansom.
By finish plate you mean an extra plate adjascent to the welded section. Would that affect the function of the spring plate... it needs to be able to twist a little
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:31 AM   #11
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

The chop looks good. I would recommend a doubler plate over your weld on the rear arm. Even if you are sure the weld is good, an extra reinforcement will give an extra measure of safety. Look at a lot of builds with frame mods and you will see many examples of the extra plate welded on over the joint.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

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Originally Posted by a4maine View Post
I appreciate everyones concern... i'm not trying to be arrogant, and no I don't have a ton of experience. I'm ALWAYS open to constructive criticism.But in my experience... if you don't jump in and take risks you'll never learn anything. I'll take the spring plates off and grind the bubbles off, take pictures and post it up so you can make a better judgement. They are NOT tacked together and i'm quite confident that, though ugly on top, they are strong... but we shall see.

And no... the brake lines aren't hooked up or secured. It's just a roller right now... and i'm looking to convert to discs before it's done. Lots more work before this is back on the road.
As long as your risks don't jeapordize the safety of others, which they do at present.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:48 AM   #13
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SHEESH How many V'rodders does it take to jump on this poor guy???
I count 3 so far... let's see how many more feel the need to reiterate what has allready been said!
this is why I have never posted build pics of my VolksRod
Because you don't know how to weld and those of who do might say something? :p
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

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A compliment! Thanks RatRansom.
By finish plate you mean an extra plate adjascent to the welded section. Would that affect the function of the spring plate... it needs to be able to twist a little
Not a finish plate, a fish plate.

I like your project, and I hope you get it all sorted for safety sakes, but I cringe whenever someone makes it known that part of their first project welding is a critical weld like that, and they are sure its a good weld because it passed their hammer test.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 06:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I'm not trying to jump on the wagon of safety problems here.

BUT.. You took stock spring plates and you cut and welded on them? Aren't they treated steel? About the same line as spring steel. Any heat to these will weaken them and thats not safe at all!

I could be not understanding what you did but I know you never want to add any kind of heat to spring steel. Even when you notch them you have to do it slow so not to heat the metal to much.

Good luck with the project but first rule always apply "be safe".
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:46 AM   #16
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

Okay, back to the overall look. The chop looks very cool and I like how you handlesd the rear window.. What kind of wheels do you plan to run?
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Old November 8th, 2011, 01:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I'm considered using s10 steel wheels and swapping the centers with the wide five for a nice deep dish... the only problem is it's only 7" wide. If i'm going to go through with something like this i'd rather get 8-10 inches in the rear. Honestly, I like the stock wheels and white walls, It'd just be nice to have the rears poke out farther.

Before anyone else freaks out over the idea of me welding wheels... I have a professional friend upstate who'll lathe / weld a set for me.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

How about setting the offset on the rear wheels more positive to poke 'em out more.? Sevens and eights steelies sound good in the looks and handling department.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

no question about better handling with the modern rims. I couldn't stand driving 60 on a windy day in this thing. The tires allow way too much sway on the road. They do look good though.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

Quote:
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I'm not trying to jump on the wagon of safety problems here.

BUT.. You took stock spring plates and you cut and welded on them? Aren't they treated steel? About the same line as spring steel. Any heat to these will weaken them and thats not safe at all!

I could be not understanding what you did but I know you never want to add any kind of heat to spring steel. Even when you notch them you have to do it slow so not to heat the metal to much.

Good luck with the project but first rule always apply "be safe".
They are not spring steel! I think the name "spring plate" has confused the general understanding of the part.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

^lol^

Here's a fish plate example, basically extra support on critical areas/bends, etc. Same purpose as a gusset.



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Old November 9th, 2011, 02:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I thought fish plates had hooked ends so that more surface area was welded together. Regardless, i'm definitely going to take your advise and add an extra plate on the outside of the spring plate.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 10:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

Generally they are diamond shaped and have holes in them so you can plug weld them too, makes anything alot stronger...
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Old November 10th, 2011, 06:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

Look how nice those welds look that RatRansom68 posted in the picture of the fish plate, those you can almost see the penetration


What kind of mig welder are you using?


If it's one of the cheap 120 volt models, then your not gonna get any good penetration welding anything over 1/8 inch thick, and that's almost to thick for a 120 volt mig welder, bout the only thing I have found them small/cheap welders to be good at welding is sheet metal no thicker than 3/32 inch, but that's from my experience using a 120 volt mig welder versus my 200 amp 240 volt stick welder

I use my little mig on sheet metal, and the stick welder on anything thicker than 1/8 inch


Your car looks good to me, the 1 thing that bothers me is the angle of your rear shocks, it almost looks as if they are angled towards the back, and they should be purty much straight up and down with a slight angle towards the front, the rear suspension moves up and down at a slight arc from the lowest point to the highest point, another thing about angling shocks that much makes them much stiffer to compress (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since reading everything about setting up the rear suspension)


Good luck


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Old November 10th, 2011, 01:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Project Squatting Turd

I'm using a lincoln regular outlet model with flux core wire. Spring plates are roughly 3/16th's steel and according to the chart on this mig it's more than capable of that depth. I believe the fact that it's not gas is part of the reason it's not a nice smooth weld (other part probably being operator).

As far as shocks. They connect at the same angles relative to the top and bottom shock mounts. However it does dip forward at the top which will stiffin compression. Whereas this will be sitting so low... i prefer a stiffer rear end and less vertical travel. I'm also considering putting camber compensators on to prevent the wheel tucking under the car on hard turns. I was contemplating the straps they use on offroad buggies but need to do more research.
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