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Old January 14th, 2016, 07:57 AM   #76
nshaddox
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Default Re: tablescraps build

so ive been working on a kitchen remodel and haven't had much time in the garage, but I do have a couple updates to share on the build.

managed to find some time to get out in the garage and play with the English wheel some more.

started with some easy stuff, these pieces will go between the stock cowl and the bubble frame. they need some more trimming and the edge near the bubble frame will have to get turned up a bit somehow since the outer edge of the bubble frame is about 3/4" higher than the cowl level. I suspect that I will end up trimming these and make the upturning, reverse curved pieces separately.



then I had to make a driver's side reverse curve piece to match the first reverse curve that fits the passenger side. took two tries to get one I can live with.





and here is the orientation of all 4 pieces on the car, before trimming


then I tried making the next curve


looks pretty nice from this angle, but the shape is actually all wrong


as far as I know this means that I didn't do enough shrinking on the horizontal/top edge or I just spent too much time stretching it with the wheel and not enough on the outer edge.

I watched a youtube video a while back on English wheeling where they said the first thing you need to learn is where to make the parting lines between your panels. they said anywhere the panel "changes direction" you need one. I think that they might be referring to an area like this where the curve starts vertically at the outside and ends horizontally at the bubble. I can see how that would make the shrinking and stretching that has to be done much easier and would keep the thickness more consistent so I might try that next.

but it didn't seem right to scrap the piece I just made when it was so close, so I decided to cut it in half and use one piece on each side.

then I welded the drivers side half in and welded the reverse curve piece to that.




came out nicely I think, so going to do the passenger's side now.
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Old January 14th, 2016, 03:43 PM   #77
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Default Re: tablescraps build

passenger side came out ok. ok but different. will see what I can do with hammers, dollies and then decide whether to keep these pieces and finish out differences in lead, or if I need to try again.



up close noticed more ripples from wheeling on this side's reverse curve.



going to do some finishing work on it later, maybe shrinking disc will remove some ripples and match driver's side. not gonna worry about it right now, no good focusing on one spot for too long.

overall from top its really not that bad I guess


also tried forming first panel for the "changing direction parting line" theory. will see how this works out but I feel like I at least have a bit more control over the panel shape with the first piece. just wish the wheel was a faster machine. takes forever to roll out panels by hand.

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Old January 14th, 2016, 04:10 PM   #78
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Default Re: tablescraps build

There's a really old saying in hot rodding, "Wood is good, 'glass is class, but Steel is real." I guess I first heard it about fifty years ago.
Anyway, one day you'll be at a show and someone is going to look at your ride and say in amazement, "You mean, it isn't fiberglass?!!"
Your project just gets cooler with each posting.
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Old January 18th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #79
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Default Re: tablescraps build

did some more shaping and welding. then had friends in town for a few days so didn't get any work done on the car.

did tear down a couple spare engines just to see if there was anything good. cases are nice. one needs align boring. one ended up being an 1835, but had a spun rod bearing, missing wrist pin clip, gouged cylinder, broken intake valve spring all on the same cylinder. kinda sucks.

also took some glamour shots to see if its realistic for me to even fit in the car.





I think its going to work. this means I need to aim for a bubble peak height of about 16". I need to make my own steering wheel though because more than 13" or so wont work. just another thing on the long list of stuff left to do.
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Old January 18th, 2016, 02:40 PM   #80
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Default Re: tablescraps build

I like where you're going with the seating. If you're sticking to the old tractor seats, they are really comfortable. A back rest is a good ideal.
Note: If the car is parked under a really hot sun, having a towel over them is an excellent idea.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 05:53 PM   #81
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Default Re: tablescraps build

sticking with tractor seats, but not sure how I want to tackle backrests just yet. I figure creature comforts like that can be dealt with after the important stuff, like building the whole rest of the fucking car. as far as sun issues go, I was actually just thinking the other day about how awesome it would be if someone knitted a beanie for covering the bubble on sunny days, whenever they decide to happen again.

I've almost run out of wood scraps and pallets for the wood stove though which will become a problem in a few weeks I bet since winter decided to happen after all.

just been wheeling away on the top panels. new method of making separate panels at the parting line is working quite well I think.

heres a photo to illustrate what I mean by separate panels at the parting line. drivers side lower half formed and tacked in place



now a photo tutorial on steps involved to make the same piece on passenger side









and done




also formed the passenger side top half and got both halves on that side welded in and roughly finished out







shape is really starting to come together now.

also ordered some hardware off McMaster carr to deal with the bubble frame assembly as well as the side/top flange mating surface. hopefully the idea in my head for all that works out.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 08:47 PM   #82
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Default Re: tablescraps build

I'm currently reading and old book on Ed Roth. You project reminds me of him a bit, but that you're working in steel, just phenomenal. IMHO It just gets better. The backrests I have on my tractor seats came with them.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 06:17 AM   #83
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This is one of my favorite builds. This is the kind of car, if finished, that will be a very desirable car on the market. Major cool factors all over it.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 02:41 PM   #84
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Default Re: tablescraps build

ed roth is the inspiration behind this build for sure. when its done I want people to think its a long lost roth car and then hold a magnet up to it and blow minds.

got drivers side done about the same as passenger side.







started thinking more about rear body treatment and cut up a perfectly usable decklid.



not sure about using it though. think I may cut up the old front hood instead. have a feeling the curves will flow better and like the idea of recesses in the back to match those in the front as sharpie lines in the pic suggest. open to suggestions for what to do.

also got my hardware in



button head M8s for holding sides to top.
countersunk stainless M6 for bubble top frame.

might just focus on bubble frame hardware for the next however long that takes until I decide what to do about rear bodywork.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 08:16 PM   #85
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Default Re: tablescraps build

I'm for a front hood (of course,highly modified in the spirit of this build), um, out back...
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 09:57 AM   #86
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Default Re: tablescraps build

This is just great! Finally someone is building something creative and outside the box here again!
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Old January 26th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #87
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Default Re: tablescraps build

thanks for all the kudos, it helps motivate me to get out there and work. didn't even light the wood stove today.

took a break from wheeling to see if I could figure out the bubble frame assembly.

hoops were tack welded together, so I first drilled 25 guide holes with a center drill. next 6.1mm holes thru to the inside of the square tube. then cut tack welds to separate bottom flange from square tube. then 25 countersinks on the flange and 8.1mm hole thru square tube on other piece. then lots of grinding and welding of the nuts into the square tube. worked out fairly well. couple of them got real close to the inner wall of the square tube but it all went together with a bit more cutting and welding and grinding.





gaps and profile still look good on the body but if I don't clamp the front corners down they stand 1/2" proud of body. hoping that if I support frame somehow and jump on the peak and back end of the frame it will undo the heat warping from welding that has caused the increased gap. highly uncontrolled methods like that make me nervous though so I'm just going to think about it for a while first.




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Old January 28th, 2016, 02:55 PM   #88
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Default Re: tablescraps build

good progress today. took a break yesterday to do some drywall mudding in the attic.

first thing I did when I got out to the garage was sweep up a space large enough to put the bubble frame assembly on the floor with a couple 2x4s supporting the low sides, and then I jumped on the thing for a while. kind of an iterative process with lots of rechecking and more jumping, but nothing appears to have broken and shape is once again damn close to flush all the way around. so that's cool.

feeling like I could accomplish anything at this point, I cut apart the hood that I first had up front on the project-the one with terminal hinge support rot. unlike when I tried the decklid, I measured a bunch of times before cutting this one and the results speak for themselves I believe.

step 1:


step done:



no one cares about the stuff in between, right?

had to do some minor tweaking to get bead to line up and undecided on whether I like the shape or not right now. more angular and aggressive looking than up front, but maybe too angular. was gonna shoot some spray can paint on it to see since the bare metal/old paint combo is misleading on overall shape, but my cans are 2-3yrs old and non of them worked, go figure.


circular emblem will be obscured by taillight housing, so I may run the script off the other decklid like so


might be too classy for me though...
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Old January 28th, 2016, 10:14 PM   #89
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Default Re: tablescraps build

The look is slick. The emblem will have folks scratching their heads. I'm guessing that you'll clean up the radius a bit where it's a bit pointy at the welds. You 'gotta good thing going with the lid. This build is sooo cool.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 10:16 AM   #90
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Default Re: tablescraps build

Wauw....
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 03:20 PM   #91
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Default Re: tablescraps build

well, didn't do vw stuff this weekend. had a spring-like day on Saturday so BBQed, drywall day sunday, girlfriend sick care day Monday. But nice warmish shop day today.

finished up the top skin in the rear with some reverse curved corners.










also filled in the gap up front between the bubble mating frame and cowl peak.


and with bubble frame looks like


and a teaser shot with tail light housing just sitting on the rear body work.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 04:25 PM   #92
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Wow! The way the bubble area flows into the rear deck is brilliant! Now I have a better idea of how you're blending the 'fenders' I under the sides.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:43 AM   #93
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Default Re: tablescraps build

Step by step....better every day !
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:39 AM   #94
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Default Re: tablescraps build

Having trouble deciding what rear tires to run. Any suggestions? Want tall, skinny black walls I think. Had a bad dream last night where tires didn't fit in the back so think it may be time to order some up before building the sides of the body. Aiming for ~29" tall tires on stock rims.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:42 PM   #95
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Default Re: tablescraps build

so, today was more of a thinking/planning/measuring day than getting actual stuff done, but I have some pictures anyways because there is some stuff that needs to be illustrated and discussed I think.

started by placing a pedal assembly and stock steering wheel and column in the car for mock up, with one of the scraps from the hoops to illustrate the desired bubble shape.






OD of stock wheel is 16" vs the 13" I need. so the question is, will there be enough room for the shifter in the position I now have it or will I have to move it back a few inches?

the other question is does it look like there will be adequate clearance between the clutch pedal and front end of the steering column? and does the slight difference in angle between the steering shaft and box necessitate a u joint or can the stock coupler take care of it?




with a smaller wheel I can probably move the whole shaft up, but not by more than an inch I think. plus that is going to cause issues with my gas tank design which I also figured out today.



there is only about 85mm from the top of the space your feet go op to the hood on the outer edge, and 105mm in the center. not much room to work with for the gas tank. but if I add a trough in the center over the tunnel, I think I can still have close to 11 gal capacity. the steering shaft will have to go through the tank, but I found a nice section of pipe left over from when I made a tow bar for the bus that has a slightly larger ID than the OD of the stock column.



so as long as I line things up where I want them the first try, I should be good to go.

still will need to lengthen the stock steering shaft by maybe a foot and/or figure out a u joint situation. also going to need a quick release for the wheel because getting in and out is very awkward.

also pretty much have my tire choice down to 2 options.
https://www.cokertire.com/tires/fire...blackwall.html
option 1 is these 700-15 firestones with a 29.29" overall height, steeper price tag, classier look.
https://www.cokertire.com/tires/fire...blackwall.html
option 2 is the 670-15 sta highway tires. similar enough look, cheaper price tag, slightly smaller OD of 28.5" the other nice thing about these is if I don't end up liking them on this car, they'd fit the look in front on my bus project quite nicely.

opinions?
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Old February 6th, 2016, 12:42 PM   #96
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Default Re: tablescraps build

"and does the slight difference in angle between the steering shaft and box necessitate a u joint or can the stock coupler take care of it?"

You can try to flip the hold down clamp for the steering box and see if the shaft and the box will align better. There are two cut outs one on either side of the clamp. One cut out is for use on Beetles, Squares, Fasty's and Notches. The other cutout is for a shallower angle of the box, for use on Karmann Ghias, and T34 Ghias. The coupler is not meant to make up for mis-alignments of the shaft and the input on the box. You can also try to relocate the the locating nub on the beam, I wouldn't go too far as you might start to stress and bind the tie rod ends. If you have to lengthen the shaft, u-joints might be your best bet anyway.

Hope this helps

I love where this build is going. This is one build that is sure to have people stop in their tracks and say WTF. And then it's a VW???

Last edited by cybernotchback; February 6th, 2016 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Incomplete thought processes
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Old February 6th, 2016, 04:17 PM   #97
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Default Re: tablescraps build

Re-Steering wheels.

Not sure if they're available over there but Mountney in the UK used to make steering wheels down to 10" back when I had hair. They crop up on ebay.co.uk fairly regularly as they were popular in custom Minis (though you need forearms like Popeye to drive a hot Mini with a tiny wheel) and they did VW centre bosses.

Otherwise, how about a kart wheel?
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Old February 6th, 2016, 06:43 PM   #98
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Default Re: tablescraps build

definitely need to lengthen the shaft so u joints might be the way to go especially since if I realigned the box and shaft down low I think I might have pedal clearance issues and gas tank issues.

not much progress since last update. did find a pretty cool craigslist steering wheel.




not bad for 60 bones, a little banged up, but not terribly.
a bit smaller diameter than stock, might work as is. don't really like how fat the rim is. might make a smaller one slightly smaller diameter too and dish spokes more but only if this doesn't work once bubble is blown.

also picked up a 4x10 of 18ga for the gas tank build, but been doing odd jobs this week so no other work done. couple more work days and I can afford to buy the sta tires though, so there is that for motivation.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 01:50 PM   #99
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Default Re: tablescraps build

did some sheet metal forming today. built first 3 pieces for gas tank. all need some tweaking still, but should be welding in a couple work days.

first put together a high tech roll bender.


then put some rolls in a piece of 18ga to form the bottom of the tank. tried to match tunnel shape for the trough. easier said than done but got it close enough so that I think it will work without further adjustment in the 'roller.'



wheeled some shape into the top panel


planning to do some beads on this piece too for looks/strength.

cut some forms from the plywood the English wheel came in and hammer formed the longer end piece.


trough is too deep though so have to tweak it some tomorrow. gas gauge should still fit.



all pieces following design pretty well.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 03:55 PM   #100
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Default Re: tablescraps build

more progress on gas tank.

shortened trough on long side first.
clecos to hold bottom to long end flange while shape adjusted.


checked fit before welding


welded both sides of flange



hammer formed short end in same fashion as long end from yesterday.
test fit


welded


about a fingers width between hood and tank


plenty of leg room


traced out hood lines on tank top, rolled with bead rolling wheel on English wheel

extended 80mm gas cap neck. probably would have worked fine at the height of the stock flange, but this will allow me to adjust height sticking out of hood and also help keep gas from sloshing out I hope.



out of wood for stove again and really low on argon/CO2.

Last edited by nshaddox; February 10th, 2016 at 04:01 PM.
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